Members permission Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 i've always thought that the cab should be equal or higher wattage compared to the head, but recently a guitar tech told me that the bass cab should actually have equal or LESS wattage than the head. which is correct? would it be hurting my head if i ran a 300 watt head w/ a 700 watt bass cab? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ender_rpm Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 High power Head + Low power cab= dead cab. Low power head + High power cab= possibly overworked head. Possibly. Head and cab matched = No problem. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SA Rios Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 You will have more headroom if the amp is higher wattage than the cab, but there is always the chance that you will blow the speakers. You can also damage the speakers with a head that is lower wattage than the cab because you will clip the amp and send nasty waves to the cab which will fry the speakers. To be safe, always match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DrSquirley Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 Well i have a question regarding this as well: THe avatar cabs site lists one of the 210's as 350w per speaker and 700 combined. SO which wattage should i be matching with my head unit? -Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 14, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 No, you can't damage the amplifier by using it into a cabinet with higher power handling. In fact, the only ways a cabinet damages a head are if there's a gross impedance mismatch or a speaker shorts. You'll see a lot of discussion about "underpowering" a cabinet. The term is a misnomer and 90% of the discussion I've seen is based on flawed logic. Essentially what people are referring to is what happend when you have less rig than you need. The head is say 100 watts and it's powering a cabinet rated 125 watts. Keep in mind the amp power is rated 100 watts at a certain distortion level. The amp likely can produce a LOT more than 100 watts, but with more distortion. If the rig's not loud enough, and you turn up, the amp could be making 150 watts into that 125 watt speaker, and the signal is distorted and possibly clipping (the top of the signal's sine wave is chopped off) which is generally going to produce higher average power than the equivalent 150 watt undistorted sine wave. It's this additional 25 watts that damages the speaker. You haven't ''underpowered" the cabinet, you overpowered it. In general find a rig that gets as loud as you need it to with amp and cabinet matched about equally. You can get by easily with mismatches in either direction if you understand what's happening as you use the rig and take appropriate precautions. I regularly used a 1,200 watt amp with a 600 watt cabinet (I use that cabinet to this day) because I knew I wouldn't ever need to push it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ender_rpm Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 700@ the ohmage of the cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members permission Posted July 14, 2005 Author Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 ok, so if i have a head that's 180 watts at 8 ohms, 300 watts at 4 ohms, and i use it with a 4x10 cab that's 300 watts at 8 ohms, is this safe? and, if i add an 8 ohm 1x15 cab to this setup, what wattage should the 1x15 be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 14, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 Originally posted by DrSquirley Well i have a question regarding this as well:THe avatar cabs site lists one of the 210's as 350w per speaker and 700 combined. SO which wattage should i be matching with my head unit?-Alex The short answer: 700. The *real* answer: neither. I don't trust Avatar's power ratings because they are not based upon anything more than the rating of the Eminence drivers inside. And those ratings are based solely on the thermal ratings of the voice coil, and don't take into account the mechanical limitations imposed by the cabinet design and the type of signal input. A 1KHz signal into that speaker can surely go to 350w with no problem, but try it with 50Hz with the driver installed in a vented cabinet and it's a whole different ballgame. You won't burn the coil, but you will fatigue the suspension very rapidly, causing it do distort and eventually rub the coil, which will lead to failure. This is NOT a knock against Avatar, at least not specifically. All manufacturers have fallen victim to "optimistic" specs in the last few years, and Avatar is merely passing the buck by using the specs they are given. I recently read that one Eminence driver 'magically' improved from a 350 to 400w rating overnight, with no actual design change. It's nearly as ludicrous a problem as "7HP" shop vacs and "3Hp" handheld routers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DrSquirley Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 Ah, ok... so what would i do? It just seems strange to me that my friends eden 210 is rated at 350W rms, and the avatar is said to be twice that... -Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BEAD Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 I've participated in this thread too many times. craigv... I'm surprised you have the patience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DrSquirley Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 Originally posted by chunkathalon I've participated in this thread too many times. craigv... I'm surprised you have the patience... Ive seen this thread before, but there always seems to be alot of people saying higher wattage head than cab, I thank craig for helping, even if it is once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 14, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 Originally posted by DrSquirley Ah, ok... so what would i do? It just seems strange to me that my friends eden 210 is rated at 350W rms, and the avatar is said to be twice that...-Alex That's my point. The Eden is conservatively and probably more accurately rated at 350w. It should be noted that there are so many variables involved that there's a lot you can get away with. Speaker manufacturers count on this when they over-rate a cabinet. It's a calculated gamble like insurance...they're willing to accept the inevitable returns if the ratings mean more sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DrSquirley Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 Originally posted by Craigv That's my point. The Eden is conservatively and probably more accurately rated at 350w. It should be noted that there are so many variables involved that there's a lot you can get away with. Speaker manufacturers count on this when they over-rate a cabinet. It's a calculated gamble like insurance...they're willing to accept the inevitable returns if the ratings mean more sales. I see, so my 400W head is probably fine, as long as im not clipping or anything, for the avatar 210 that im looking at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassman1956 Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 This discussion should be correctly and susinctly writen up, and FAQ'ed, once and for all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jazzbassist Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 ARG, we need to make a sticky of this subject, it's on the FAQ, but it seems that no one goes there anymore.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kaesh Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 It's makes no difference whether the head or cab has higher wattage. The only rule is that both should have enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DrSquirley Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 The same discussion is in the faqs but theres a bit to wade through, now that i understand, more of the faqed page makes sense. -Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 14, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 Originally posted by DrSquirley I see, so my 400W head is probably fine, as long as im not clipping or anything, for the avatar 210 that im looking at? Yes, it should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 Originally posted by jazzbassist ARG, we need to make a sticky of this subject, it's on the FAQ, but it seems that no one goes there anymore.... http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=146924 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassman1956 Posted July 14, 2005 Members Share Posted July 14, 2005 Originally posted by jazzbassist ARG, we need to make a sticky of this subject, it's on the FAQ, but it seems that no one goes there anymore.... D'oh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kelemvor Posted July 15, 2005 Members Share Posted July 15, 2005 I used to run a SWR bass750 into a Hartke 2x10 transport. I think the SWR puts out around 600 watts at 8 ohms and the cab is rated at 150. I never had any trouble. Of course I never experimented with how loud it could go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rovito Posted July 15, 2005 Members Share Posted July 15, 2005 Turn it up until it sounds like {censored} then turn it down alittle. Specs suck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcrow Posted July 15, 2005 Members Share Posted July 15, 2005 my 100w combo has a 200w speaker as standard... speaker efficiency comes into it as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rippin' Robin Posted July 15, 2005 Members Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by mrcrow my 100w combo has a 200w speaker as standard... speaker efficiency comes into it as well... No it doesn't. It just what they want you to believe. *looks around suspiciously and blends into the background, hiding behind a newspaper with eye holes* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members venturawest Posted July 15, 2005 Members Share Posted July 15, 2005 ...or, you could just do the safe thing, and never turn your amp over 6/10 and be fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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