Members Bonoman Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- The former drummer for the Doors won a permanent injunction on Friday preventing his bandmates from using the rock group's name while touring with a revamped version of the legendary 1960s act. The Los Angeles Superior Court order also requires keyboardist Ray Manzarek and guitarist Robby Krieger, who have been touring as The Doors of the 21st Century, to turn over all the profits earned by the new combo to the original Doors partnership. The decision represents a major victory for Doors drummer John Densmore, who told Reuters he was concerned that the band's legacy was being tarnished by its reincarnation as an oldies act. Manzarek and Krieger, along with British singer Ian Astbury (formerly of the Cult) subbing for the late Jim Morrison, are touring Canada as headliners of the "Strange Days" festival, which also features such bands as Steppenwolf, the Yardbirds and Vanilla Fudge. "They're playing Doors songs and calling themselves the Doors of the 21st Century. I kinda think it's the 19th century, it's looking back," said Densmore, who plays original music with his own band Tribal Jazz. He teamed up with Morrison's estate -- represented by the parents of both Morrison and Morrison's late wife, Pamela Courson -- to sue Krieger and Manzarek in early 2003. Under an agreement struck in 1971, the year Morrison died in Paris, all three surviving members as well as the Morrison estate must sign off on any use of the Doors name and logo. "I'm very pleased that, in my opinion, the legacy is preserved," added Densmore. "I never intended for Ray and Robby to stop playing -- they're great musicians. I hope Doors fans keep going to see them -- it's just the name is owned by me and them and the estate of Jim Morrison, and they kinda ran off with stolen property." Densmore estimated that Manzarek and Krieger have earned "millions and millions of dollars" on the road in recent years, more than the original band ever made. A management representative for Krieger and Manzarek in Los Angeles did not return a call. The Doors rose to fame in the late 1960s with such songs as "Light My Fire" and "Touch Me." After Morrison, their provocative frontman and self-styled "lizard king," died of a heart attack, the band eventually folded. Its mythology exploded with the 1980 publication of the Doors biography "No One Here Gets Out Alive" and then with Oliver Stone's 1991 movie "The Doors." The band was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1993, with the three members reuniting for a few songs behind Pearl Jam singer Eddie Vedder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceGhost Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 I'm with him. He wrote a great article about how Ray would of sold songs for companies to run in commercials (For example: Apple Computers) but declined to do so in order to preserve The Doors integrity. I'm going to search for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceGhost Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 Found it:http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020708&s=densmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B-Bottom Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 Originally posted by SpaceGhost I'm with him. He wrote a great article about how Ray would of sold songs for companies to run in commercials (For example: Apple Computers) but declined to do so in order to preserve The Doors integrity. I'm going to search for it... While I do agree with him I don't know what integrity ther eis left to preserve. I mean jeeze you can get jim morrisons face on t shirts, posters, blankets, stickers and a plethora of other useless crap. Jim Morrison was a douche in my opinion anyway. The music that band produced was neat but his ramblings just get under my skin. Waaaaaaay over rated IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceGhost Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 Originally posted by B-Bottom Jim Morrison was a douche in my opinion anyway. The music that band produced was neat but his ramblings just get under my skin. Waaaaaaay over rated IMO. Which is why arguing the point wouldn't make much sense as you have already made up your mind. As far as the T-shirts and other useless things (which I fully agree is uselesss) everyband uses those as tools to premote themselves. Bands that are signed and unsigned alike. I can't think of a single band that has not promoted themselves using T-shirts and things like that. However, they are not signing checks for millions of dollars to sell there songs through commercials on TV for another product, which is where the line of losing integrity begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B-Bottom Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 Originally posted by SpaceGhost Which is why arguing the point wouldn't make much sense as you have already made up your mind. As far as the T-shirts and other useless things (which I fully agree is uselesss) everyband uses those as tools to premote themselves. Bands that are signed and unsigned alike. I can't think of a single band that has not promoted themselves using T-shirts and things like that. However, they are not signing checks for millions of dollars to sell there songs through commercials on TV for another product, which is where the line of losing integrity begins. I agree with the drummer. But to say it's because of the band losing it's integrity is just asinine. I mean how many Beatles songs have you seen in comercials over the years? And I still have some respect for them, at least they were coherent. As far as the T shirt thing as a promotional tool you're right. But this is the freaking Doors for christsakes. it's not like they are some underground hardcore punk band or something. they are an establishment. it's like saying that no one would have heard of the Rolling Stones if they didn't have that Andy Warhol lip symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceGhost Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 Originally posted by B-Bottom I agree with the drummer. But to say it's because of the band losing it's integrity is just asinine. I mean how many Beatles songs have you seen in comercials over the years? And I still have some respect for them, at least they were coherent. As far as the T shirt thing as a promotional tool you're right. But this is the freaking Doors for christsakes. it's not like they are some underground hardcore punk band or something. they are an establishment. it's like saying that no one would have heard of the Rolling Stones if they didn't have that Andy Warhol lip symbol. For me, If I heard something that was part of my youth and its being played for some new fangled flavor-of-the-month machine, To me at least, it would loose some of its true meaning. It just becomes a status symbol. I'm not a Beatle fan but George Harrison (as mentioned in the article) said, The Beatles "could have made millions of extra dollars [doing commercials], but we thought it would belittle our image or our songs," he said. "It would be real handy if we could talk to John [Lennon]...because that quarter of us is gone...and yet it isn't, because Yoko's there, Beatling more than ever." So as far as something loosing its integrity, thats up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B-Bottom Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 MR. PROFITS RISIN'!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike fitzwell Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 As far at the Beatles go, doesn't Michael Jackson own the rights to most of their catalog? Wouldn't he be the one signing off on commerical use of their music? Thought I read that somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B-Bottom Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 Originally posted by mike fitzwell As far at the Beatles go, doesn't Michael Jackson own the rights to most of their catalog? Wouldn't he be the one signing off on commerical use of their music? Thought I read that somewhere. You are correct in that. it's actually a partnership between jacko and Sony I believe. But that's why Paul is so pissed at Jackson. He won't sell the songs back to him. I guess their were talks about him having to sell it though because of all the debt he's in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bonoman Posted July 25, 2005 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 I think The Doors - one of my favourite bands of all time, by the way - lost their integrity before the 70's were done when they recorded those two albums without Jim Morrison. What, you don't remember them? Well, neither does anybody else because only one guy bought them and he was Ray Manzarek's brother. I don't mind Ray and Robbie wanting to continue to make music, but not with The Doors name, man. Would it be U2 without Bono? Would it be REM without Michael Stipe? Would it be Zeppelin without Plant? No, it would be something very different, and that's what the New Doors are - similar to the Doors, but very different. Therefore they need to pick another name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mudbass Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 I can't understand Ray Manzarek. Why didn't he just move on? He was the creative impetus behind the Doors anyway. It was his music that attracted me to the band, not Morrison's rambling and often psychotic poetry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 Originally posted by Bonoman and that's what the New Doors are - similar to the Doors, but very different. Therefore they need to pick another name. How bout The Windows. No wait, Bill Gates owns that.. How about the Gates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Les_Izzmor Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 Originally posted by B-Bottom While I do agree with him I don't know what integrity ther eis left to preserve. I mean jeeze you can get jim morrisons face on t shirts, posters, blankets, stickers and a plethora of other useless crap. Jim Morrison was a douche in my opinion anyway. The music that band produced was neat but his ramblings just get under my skin. Waaaaaaay over rated IMO. There is a big difference between a picture of Jim Morrison and something to do with the Doors and their music. I'm pretty sure pictures of Morrison go through his estate and his estate only. As for Doors stuff that's got to go through the whole group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Microwave Walrus Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 ^ hmm... the name was originally taken from Huxley's "The Doors of Perception" I believe...(if you didn't know) The Windows or The Gates would be a good name for "The Doors of the 21st Century" tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members s4001 Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 When Chris Squire wasn't with Yes in the 90's, the rest of the band performed 'An Evening of Yes Music.' A classy way to approach the situation in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_big_geez Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 I believe it can be proven that the only songs that ever charted (ie, made any money) for that band were actually Robbie Kreiger tunes. Makes me wonder what HIS feelings might be on this subject... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted July 25, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 25, 2005 Originally posted by Bonoman I think The Doors - one of my favourite bands of all time, by the way - lost their integrity before the 70's were done when they recorded those two albums without Jim Morrison. What, you don't remember them? Well, neither does anybody else because only one guy bought them and he was Ray Manzarek's brother. I don't mind Ray and Robbie wanting to continue to make music, but not with The Doors name, man. Would it be U2 without Bono? Would it be REM without Michael Stipe? Would it be Zeppelin without Plant? No, it would be something very different, and that's what the New Doors are - similar to the Doors, but very different. Therefore they need to pick another name. I had one of those albums. I won it as a door prize. It wasn't very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted July 25, 2005 Moderators Share Posted July 25, 2005 Originally posted by the_big_geez I believe it can be proven that the only songs that ever charted (ie, made any money) for that band were actually Robbie Kreiger tunes.Makes me wonder what HIS feelings might be on this subject... Obvious, isn't it? He is the guitarist for The Doors of the 21st Century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 25, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted July 25, 2005 Originally posted by s4001 When Chris Squire wasn't with Yes in the 90's, the rest of the band performed 'An Evening of Yes Music.' A classy way to approach the situation in my opinion. FWIW, Chris Squire "is" Yes. He's the only band member who's been in every iteration of the group playing under that name. Other past members have played Yes music, but not as Yes. But I also think they've been a lot more civil about the use of the music than many other bands. Just look at the assholes from The Beach Boys. Real shame what's happened to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members frunobulax Posted July 25, 2005 Members Share Posted July 25, 2005 keep your eyes on the road your hands upon the wheel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_big_geez Posted July 26, 2005 Members Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by isaac42 Obvious, isn't it? He is the guitarist for The Doors of the 21st Century. Yeah, actually it IS... I was thinking of the folly of Roger Waters' being basically laughed out of court for claiming his 1/4 input was greater than the sum of the whole... And also seeing JPJ say at the Hall of Fame Concert say, 'I'm glad my old friends remembered my phone number', only to have them make yet ANOTHER album without asking him to contribute. Buncha freakin' prima donas, all of 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members D Aussie Posted July 26, 2005 Members Share Posted July 26, 2005 Why not just call them a piece of {censored}? It will save confusion later. I mean .. really... cool, being who he is not cool, acting mr knob head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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