Members Bonoman Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 NEW YORK (AP) -- A civil court judge ruled Wednesday that the landmark punk club CBGB's can't be evicted from its Bowery location, saying it shouldn't be punished for not noticing it owed its landlord money. The ruling was a victory for the club where groups like the Ramones and Blondie defined the punk scene in the 1970s, but CBGB's future is still uncertain. Its lease with the Bowery Residents' Committee expires on August 31, and a renewal remains up in the air. The executive director of the Bowery Residents' Committee, Muzzy Rosenblatt, said he had not seen the ruling so he could not comment on it. "All we're looking for is a responsible tenant," he said of his group, which provides shelter for homeless people in the building that houses the club. The dispute involved about $100,000 in rent increases, interest and fees. The club says the increases went unpaid for four years because of a bookkeeping mix-up. CBGB's said it wasn't billed for the increases, but Rosenblatt said the increases were clearly stated in the lease. CBGB's rent is $19,000 a month. In her ruling, Judge Joan Kenney praised the club's impact on the neighborhood, which she said was plagued by "destitution, degradation and substance abuse" when the club opened in 1973. "CBGB has proven itself worthy of being recognized as a landmark -- a rare achievement for any commercial tenant in the ever diverse and competitive real estate market of New York City," she wrote in the ruling, a copy of which was provided to The Associated Press by the Save CBGB's Coalition. "It would be unconscionable for this court to allow petitioner to proceed with its intent to evict CBGB ... because it failed to notice that monies were outstanding for approximately four years," the judge wrote. As part of its proposal for a new lease, CBGB's has said it would find a third-party guarantor and would raise money for the committee every year with benefit concerts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B-Bottom Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 I don't know if you've ever been there but that place is a real {censored} hole. While I understand the history of the place and all that the fact remains that if you don't pay your rent your ass is on the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rowka Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by B-Bottom I don't know if you've ever been there but that place is a real {censored} hole. While I understand the history of the place and all that the fact remains that if you don't pay your rent your ass is on the street. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members takeout Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 The point made by the judge isn't "I'm letting them off the hook because they're an institution". The point is that the landlord didn't provide sufficient notification of the increases, then let four years' worth of back rent build up before demanding it, knowing that CBGB's couldn't pay a lump sum like that. They wanted the property for redevelopment, and employed a sketchy practice to try and oust the club. I mean, what kind of businessman honestly overlooks their accounts receivable for four years? Especially of that kind of magnitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BEAD Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 I love the punk rock, but I don't really care about cbgb's at all. Actually, I think that GBGB t-shirts are just as annoying as the che ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 I've never been there but CBGB's is such an icon of American culture that it would be a travesty if it were shut down and turned into a homeless shelter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members i_wanna_les_paul Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by zachoff I've never been there but CBGB's is such an icon of American culture that it would be a travesty if it were shut down and turned into a homeless shelter. Isn't a venue that lets punk rock bands play a homeless shelter, anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BEAD Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by i_wanna_les_paul Isn't a venue that lets punk rock bands play a homeless shelter, anyway? We had a homeless shelter/punkrock venue/art gallery here for a few years, but it dissolved and was turned into a bar remodeled to be shaped like a long tube called, get this, "the tube," where hipsters hang out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ARES Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by zachoff I've never been there but CBGB's is such an icon of American culture that it would be a travesty if it were shut down and turned into a homeless shelter. yeah, {censored} the poor, weak, and hungry! edit: not trying to be rude, but come on, becoming a soup kitchen or something similar is actually pretty cool and hardly a travesty. history or not, the place is a dive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dert_stylus Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 If anyone cares , they are not going to turn CBGB's into a Homeless shelter , they are trying to kick CBGB's out so that they can lease it to another Corporate entity (ie: Starbucks, Payless Shoes, etc). The Corporations can pay 2-3 times the amount of rent that CB's can !!! Dive? Yeah, and ? !!!!!!! Do you have any idea what the surrounding area is like in the Bowery(DUMP), yet all the Tourist make their way down the Bowery to visit this...so called Dive !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B-Bottom Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by dert_stylus If anyone cares , they are not going to turn CBGB's into a Homeless shelter , they are trying to kick CBGB's out so that they can lease it to another Corporate entity (ie: Starbucks, Payless Shoes, etc). The Corporations can pay 2-3 times the amount of rent that CB's can !!!Dive? Yeah, and ? !!!!!!!Do you have any idea what the surrounding area is like in the Bowery(DUMP), yet all the Tourist make their way down the Bowery to visit this...so called Dive !!! well if all the tourists make their way down their to visit then they should be able to afford to pay their rent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by dert_stylus If anyone cares , they are not going to turn CBGB's into a Homeless shelter , they are trying to kick CBGB's out so that they can lease it to another Corporate entity (ie: Starbucks, Payless Shoes, etc). The Corporations can pay 2-3 times the amount of rent that CB's can !!! Dive? Yeah, and ? !!!!!!! Do you have any idea what the surrounding area is like in the Bowery(DUMP), yet all the Tourist make their way down the Bowery to visit this...so called Dive !!! Yea, how DARE those OWNERS get to do with THEIR OWN PROPERTY what they want! I think the Supreme Court should TAKE THAT RIGHT AWAY! ..Oh wait, they already did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dert_stylus Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 As if $19,000 a month is not enough !!!! We dont need another SBUX in NY? this isnt Seattle !!! CBGB's wants to pay the rent , the owners are just becoming a bunch of greedy slobs !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by Bonoman The dispute involved about $100,000 in rent increases, interest and fees. The club says the increases went unpaid for four years because of a bookkeeping mix-up. CBGB's said it wasn't billed for the increases, but Rosenblatt said the increases were clearly stated in the lease. CBGB's rent is $19,000 a month. Put into perspective, they're short five months' rent. Saying they went unpaid for four years sounds good, and saying rent is $19,000 a month sounds good, but in context, it's not as bad as they're making it sound. A couple benefit shows should fill that no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by dert_stylus As if $19,000 a month is not enough !!!! We dont need another SBUX in NY? this isnt Seattle !!! CBGB's wants to pay the rent , the owners are just becoming a bunch of greedy slobs !!! I feel that I have a use for your shoes that serve a higher purpose than you are using them for ...PLUS you aready have another pair! GREED MERCHANT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 11, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by ARES yeah, {censored} the poor, weak, and hungry! edit: not trying to be rude, but come on, becoming a soup kitchen or something similar is actually pretty cool and hardly a travesty. history or not, the place is a dive. It's a PUNK club. Are you expecting linen tablecloths and a lavender scent in the air? Even the nicest NY clubs get a shopworn appearance after maybe a month in operation. The bull{censored} tactics played by that resident's committee more than earned it a big "{censored} you" regardless of what good they do. But note that CBGB intends to throw a few benefit concerts for these douchebags anyway. Gotta love Muzzy claiming he didn't see the ruling. Yeah, sure, the media knew about it before the Executive Director of the plaintiff. What a goniff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BEAD Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Does a landlord in NY need a really good reason to evict a tenant? Here in Portland a coffee shop I really liked was dropped at the end of their lease with very short notice because the property owner had a freind who wanted to open a coffee shop. I mean, does CBGBs have like a 50 year lease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 11, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by lug I feel that I have a use for your shoes that serve a higher purpose than you are using them for ...PLUS you aready have another pair! GREED MERCHANT! Slow down there, Speedy. Many if not most commercial leases have a renewal clause. ALL have a provision for proper notification of the landlord's intent to not renew....you can't just tell a working business, "Sorry, get your {censored} out, the Instant Starbucks truck's down the block". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_big_geez Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 "meet the new boss..." I doubt that the legal opinion should involve anything OTHER than the law. There is a National Register of Historic Places, which can and does protect certain properties from being 'reutilised', and barring a locations acceptance into the registry there is little legal substance to the location being 'institutionalized'. I have a numbre of friends who have played there and who have attended other performances there, and who would feel the same amount of loss as when thier old school building was knocked down, but this has no bearing on the law. The actual point, as I see it, is that the property owners failed to make an effort to collect delinquent rent monies and in so doing, dnegated their claim of negligence against the tenant. In a word, what the judge said was, 'Thank you for playing; try again. Your claim is without substance.' It really should have involved no more than that. Per my understanding, what the proprietors of CBGBs failed to do was pay the INCREASE, NOT that they paid no rent at all. Had a complete delinquence been the case, there would be no legal standing for them as tenants (and, I daresay the matter would've gone to court FAR sooner than four years after the fact...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members greenshag Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by the_big_geez "meet the new boss..."I doubt that the legal opinion should involve anything OTHER than the law.There is a National Register of Historic Places, which can and does protect certain properties from being 'reutilised', and barring a locations acceptance into the registry there is little legal substance to the location being 'institutionalized'.I have a numbre of friends who have played there and who have attended other performances there, and who would feel the same amount of loss as when thier old school building was knocked down, but this has no bearing on the law.The actual point, as I see it, is that the property owners failed to make an effort to collect delinquent rent monies and in so doing, dnegated their claim of negligence against the tenant. In a word, what the judge said was, 'Thank you for playing; try again. Your claim is without substance.' It really should have involved no more than that.Per my understanding, what the proprietors of CBGBs failed to do was pay the INCREASE, NOT that they paid no rent at all. Had a complete delinquence been the case, there would be no legal standing for them as tenants (and, I daresay the matter would've gone to court FAR sooner than four years after the fact...) that is what I read as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by ARES yeah, {censored} the poor, weak, and hungry! edit: not trying to be rude, but come on, becoming a soup kitchen or something similar is actually pretty cool and hardly a travesty. history or not, the place is a dive. To be honest... I don't have much respect or feeling of need to help the homeless... If you've burned so many bridges that no one you know can help you out it's your own damn fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by Craigv Slow down there, Speedy. Many if not most commercial leases have a renewal clause. ALL have a provision for proper notification of the landlord's intent to not renew....you can't just tell a working business, "Sorry, get your {censored} out, the Instant Starbucks truck's down the block". You will be able to in Luglandia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted August 11, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by lug You will be able to in Luglandia. *packs up the family, loads 'em into F-150, points it towards Texas* Oh, wait, he said Luglandia. Where the F is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lug Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by Craigv *packs up the family, loads 'em into F-150, points it towards Texas* Oh, wait, he said Luglandia. Where the F is that? in my mind........IN MY MIND! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zachoff Posted August 11, 2005 Members Share Posted August 11, 2005 Originally posted by Craigv *packs up the family, loads 'em into F-150, points it towards Texas* Oh, wait, he said Luglandia. Where the F is that? It's the capital of the Suckland, duh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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