10/15 inch cabs?

[Narcosynthesis]

dumb question i know, and probably covered many times before (the search hasnt given me anything useful though) but what are the differences in sound between 10 inch and 15 inch speakers?

 

to explain, i am airly new to bass after playing guitar for years, and looking for a semi decent amp, something i can use at home but easily able to stand up to gigging if i get sorted

I am looking at the Ashdown MAG300H head, as it seems to get pretty good reviews, but that cab to go with it? i only really got as far as a nice ashdown matching cab would be nice

 

but for cabs, what are the general rules regarding the differences in sound between speakers, i would probably be looking at the cheaper ashdown mag cabs, so either a 2x10 or 1x15, but dont know which would suit me best (a general rock sound, i have beenplaying about with stuff from muse and rock to more ska punkey stuff like less than jake, but bits of old rocky/metal and whatnot too) so are there any general rules on the sound, i know different cabs will be different, but as a rule of thumb (or looking at the ashdown cabs)

 

i am kinda awkward as i half know what i want from playing guitar (ie a good tone) but dont really know the specifics of bass, atm i am playing through a JCM2000 combo, which isnt exactly ideal

 

if it makes a difference, i am playing with a Fender standard Jazz (mim)

 

thanks for any help

 

David

[fintucfin]

Welcome to the quagmire. I've yet to see a single 15" cab that handles a lower frequency than 45 Hz. I hope that there are 1x15"s that go down to 40 Hz, this is what an open "E" string in standard tuning puts out.

 

A few 2x10" cabinets handle 40 Hz, but more power is needed, 40 Hz doesn't happen at 0 db, I'm guessing that 4- 6db more oomph is needed, and that's a LOT of power. No mini amplifiers, please.

 

Offhand, 2x10" cabinets made by David Eden, and his budget line, Nemesis handle 40 Hz well. www.acmebass.com builds a tiny, very light and portable cab, the Low B1 that's amazingly focused at 40 Hz.

 

Most of us like to be able to generate earthquakes with our Sunday Go to Meeting rigs. 15" speakers do this better than 10" speakers do.

[sunburstbasser]

Try some 12" speakers. Avatar makes a 2x12 bass cab that handles lows better than a 2x10, while giving more definition than a 15" speaker. As well, if you order an Avatar cab, you can get a great price on the Ashdown MAG 300. And the MAG/Avatar combo is an excellent one, likely quite a bit better than using the matching Ashdown MAG cabinet.

[John S. Shinal]

The problems with both are that many manufacturers design their cabinets more for portability than for performance or accuracy. Generally cabinets need to be fairly large in order to properly tune and resonate with the drivers. The stiffness of a driver and some other factors determine how big of a cabinet it requires in order to tune for performance at lower notes.

 

All of us want small cabinets, but you can't change the laws of physics.

 

As a result, a lot of cabinets are tuned too high to give big fat low notes. Manufactuers quoted specs don't help much, most of them leave out information that makes them look bad, so they won't tell you what frequency (Hz) the cutoff point is (this is the point where output drops by -3dB). Most of them give some bogus "usable low frequency" rating, which can be up to -10dB (pretty anemic). As a result, lots of people are boosting the lows on their EQ or using the Bass control on the amp head.

 

There are exceptions. Ampeg makes some cabinets (the HLF series) that have superb low frequency performance - they'll shake your shoes off. Unfortunately they are BIG and weigh quite a bit. There is also a Peavey 1x15 that is quite large and performs well.

 

Ideally you want a cabinet that is tuned to 40Hz or lower, using drivers that have a Vas equal or smaller than the cabinet's internal volume.

 

The Eminence Delta 12LF, Kappa 15 LF, Kappa Pro 15 and Kappa Pro 15LF are all great drivers to use in a custom-made cab tuned to 40Hz or lower. There are others, but the ones I listed are super values, and rock solid.

 

A lot of people like premium cabinets like Bergantino, Epifani and Aguilar, and they are very nice - they are a lot better at "high performance" than many other brands.

[Sixgun77]

I have to say that the Delta 12 LF's are awesome speakers. I am however moving to a 1-18/2-12 setup. The 12LF's start losing power at 100Hz and the roll off only gets more dramatic as you get to lower freqs. True, 10's when used in number will get you some punchy low mid, but they'll never(IMO) put out 40Hz as efficiently as 15's or 18's. Neither will 12's. 12's are awesome for mids, but I think a big speaker is needed for truly powerful lows. They're the way to go for powerful low end(not low mid, you can get that with smaller speakers) though.

[Narcosynthesis]

one thing i liked about the ashdown ones was the cost - ideally i dont want to spend much more than they would be.

 

the two mag cabs from ashodwn are listed as 'deep' cabs, does that mean they would be pretty decent for the really low notes?

 

David

[phatster]

MY SOLUTION TO THIS MESS IS TO GO BI-AMP,i USE A 18" KARLSON DESIGNED CAB AND A 2-12 AVATAR WITH AWESOME RESULTS,BUT I LIKE MY LOWS TO BE FELT.THINK ABOUT BI-AMP,YOU CAN USE A Y-CABLE AND FORGO A BUNCH OF EXTRA CRAP.

[Craig Vecchione]

Gentlemen, stereotyping speakers and cabinets is as useless as stereotyping people....there are always so many exceptions to the "rules". There are plenty of punchy 15's and deep 10's.

 

Listen in person or better yet, play the cab live whenever possible, before deciding if you actually like it or not.

[Narcosynthesis]

 

Originally posted by Craigv Gentlemen, stereotyping speakers and cabinets is as useless as stereotyping people....there are always so many exceptions to the "rules". There are plenty of punchy 15's and deep 10's. Listen in person or better yet, play the cab live whenever possible, before deciding if you actually like it or not.

 

 

damn, i kinda assumed there would be some 'stereotypical' differences between the two sizes, so its pretty much every speaker for itself?

 

any idea on the two ashdowns i mentioned?

 

David

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by Narcosynthesis damn, i kinda assumed there would be some 'stereotypical' differences between the two sizes, so its pretty much every speaker for itself? any idea on the two ashdowns i mentioned? David

 

 

Ashdown's a pretty good budget cab, especially since you'll get a much better price than I could here. I've only heard the 2x10 Deep Series and it sounded okay to me. I'd say at this point, if you've heard it and like it, go for it, and as you develop your ear and style with bass you can go from there.

[Archon_113]

 

Originally posted by phatster MY SOLUTION TO THIS MESS IS TO GO BI-AMP,i USE A 18" KARLSON DESIGNED CAB AND A 2-12 AVATAR WITH AWESOME RESULTS,BUT I LIKE MY LOWS TO BE FELT.THINK ABOUT BI-AMP,YOU CAN USE A Y-CABLE AND FORGO A BUNCH OF EXTRA CRAP.

 

 

That's not biamping. That's called using 2 cabs.

[Deville]

 

Originally posted by Archon_113 That's not biamping. That's called using 2 cabs.

 

 

I believe he was talking about using a Y-cable to send his instrument's signal on the input side to two seperate amps

[Deville]

There are a few 10" cabs that can do the low low frequencies, but most of them cost a pretty penny.

 

Most budget 10" cabs are not going to give you the meaty lows that a single 15" cab can.

 

It's been said here, that 12" cabs are a nice solution to the whole depth/tone issue.

 

You stated you're not going to be working as a bassist until you get sorted. Having said that, normally I'd recommend a 2x10 to start with. But something else has grabbed my attention lately.

A 1x12.

Sound crazy? How's a single driver rated at 500 watts grab ya?

 

I'd buy the Ashdown amp you mentioned, and an Avatar SB112. It's a single 12" cab that seems to be getting a lot of attention lately. It has the covetted Eminence Delta 12LF driver, which will give you all the low end you'll require, and it's compact enough to give you portability.

Then when you're ready, buy another one to stack on top of it. It's a beautiful rig, and it should give you all the bass power you need.

Plus it's so unusual that it'll look really cool on stage!

 

If you go through Avatar, you can get the amp and cab shipped for $538 USD!

Shipping may be a bit more being in Scotland and all, but I think that's a good deal.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by Deville I believe he was talking about using a Y-cable to send his instrument's signal on the input side to two seperate amps

 

 

That's called "using two amps". It's still not biamping.

 

Signa|active crossover|two amps|two cabs designed for the frequencies they handle.

 

 

 

Regarding the Avatar recommendation; does Avatar ship overseas?

[Deville]

Originally posted by Craigv That's called "using two amps". It's still not biamping. Signa|active crossover|two amps|two cabs designed for the frequencies they handle. Regarding the Avatar recommendation; does Avatar ship overseas?

 

Details, details. What if he cuts bass on one amp, and boosts it on the other? Does it count then? Ghetto bi-amping? Christ, it has nothing to do with the topic anyway.

 

I'm pretty sure Avatar ships overseas now since Dave has international distributors in Canadia and Holland.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Originally posted by Deville Details, details. What if he cuts bass on one amp, and boosts it on the other? Does it count then? Ghetto bi-amping? Christ, it has nothing to do with the topic anyway.

 

 

Lighten up Francis. The beauty of a forum is dissemination of information. Details count to some. If you don't appreciate them fine, but no need to get upset because of it.

 

Regarding using tone controls, I guess it's ghetto biamping, but since there's no way of knowing or controlling the actual crossover point, or the slope, or any phase issues, it's pretty lame. If it works, great, if it doesn't, then maybe you know why.

[Deville]

Originally posted by Craigv Lighten up Francis. The beauty of a forum is dissemination of information. Details count to some. If you don't appreciate them fine, but no need to get upset because of it. Regarding using tone controls, I guess it's ghetto biamping, but since there's no way of knowing or controlling the actual crossover point, or the slope, or any phase issues, it's pretty lame. If it works, great, if it doesn't, then maybe you know why.

 

Don't call me Francis, anus.

Any of you homos call me Francis, I'll kill ya.

 

I'm well aware of the beauty of the forum. I've been here a while now.

[Darkstorm]

Never heard a 12" bass speaker I liked the sound of. Prefers 10"s overall. Nice tight sound & if properly made with right cab, can do 40hz signals just fine on up thru treble. Only 15's I've tried and liked are Eden Nemesis cab with comp tweeter (its not the garbage piezo foud in most makers cabs) and JBL 15" cabs with titanium tweeter. With 15's you need a qaulity tweeter (not piezo), with10's you dont since they get good treble extension. 2nd's the vote for Eden & Eden Nemesis cabs & amps.

[Craig Vecchione]

Originally posted by Deville Don't call me Francis, anus. Any of you homos call me Francis, I'll kill ya. I'm well aware of the beauty of the forum. I've been here a while now.

 

Okay Francis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[takeout]

Most of the boxes that the aforementioned speakers are installed in are too small. Put those same speakers in a bigger box, properly ported, and the cutoff moves to the left.

[Deville]

I think that Avatar 1x12 is snazzy. I want it.

[Sixgun77]

The Delta 12 LF is a truly awesome speaker. I have 4 of 'em in my cab.

[Deville]

Originally posted by Sixgun77 The Delta 12 LF is a truly awesome speaker. I have 4 of 'em in my cab.

 

 

 

[phatster]

Yes Deville you understand my madness,I actually tried a cross-over with my rig and liked the ghetto method the best.Another forum member recommended this and he was right at least for me.I really like the 2-12 set-up for my mids.

[Deville]

Originally posted by phatster Yes Deville you understand my madness,I actually tried a cross-over with my rig and liked the ghetto method the best.Another forum member recommended this and he was right at least for me.I really like the 2-12 set-up for my mids.

 

Yes, there comes a time of desperation when you will give the rediculous a try...