Do you believe in Chiropractic?

[burdizzos]

This is from a discussion in another thread. I was curious how many people think it's good science and how many people think it's total bunk.

[bassman1956]

I answered sound treatment, BUT, you ought to have a line in there with a disclaimer... It's sound treatment when it's correctly directed and thought out. Too many chi's have the oppinion it's a panacea close to a religion. This of course is just bunk. And if I had not been talked out of seeing a surgeon for a year, my neck would have been fixed before there was anything near the damage done as there was by the time I saw one. But sometimes there are just kinks, and bed rest, medicine, and excercise isn't necessarily going to make that go away.

[beam]

Chiropractic therapy can be used to successfully treat various ailments that people have with their back and neck.

 

It isn't a permanent treatment, but it is a form of therapy and pain management. It makes it easier for some people to live with the pain, and have greater mobility. It is not totally based on some placebo effect.

 

It isn't junk science by any means, IMO. It wouldn't be the first place I go to with back pain, but as long as whatever doctor I went to said that Chiropractic therapy couldn't hurt any, and might provide some relief, I'd have no problem going.

 

However, it is just like medication in that overuse is a very bad thing.

[rikshaw]

its good stuff! they are the only type of doctor that i have ever been to in my life that has been able to fix me

[sludgebass69]

Sound medical treatment in my book as long as the back cracker is honest, but that goes for any doc.

I've been to the same one several times. He's fixed various ailments over the years and when my back went out the first time, he's the one that sent me to a regular doc and setup getting me my 1st MRI. When he saw the MRI he knew right away he couldn't do anything else for me and didn't try to string along the treatments.

[james on bass]

I've used them in the past, but don't think much of it anymore. I had a hip problem about 7 years ago that chiropractic fixed right up. I had a back problem 2 years ago, and the chiropractor was a dick. He was insisting he new what the problem was and that chiro was the cure-all for my problems. When I asked him if maybe I had a disc or nerve problem, he said that was not the problem and kept adjusting twice or more a week for almost two months. I was finally told to go see a physiotherapist by my boss (he and the nurse would not let me work anymore due to my pain). Within 5 minutes he diagnosed me with a disc bulge. A CAT scan later showed a completley herniated lumbar disc. A few months of physio and massage therapy, and I was back in the groove.

I will never go see Chiro's again. One more thing I hate is the constant phone calls from them saying I am due for an adjustment. What kind of doctor telemarkets?

[burdizzos]

 

Originally posted by sludgebass69 Sound medical treatment in my book as long as the back cracker is honest, but that goes for any doc. I've been to the same one several times. He's fixed various ailments over the years and when my back went out the first time, he's the one that sent me to a regular doc and setup getting me my 1st MRI. When he saw the MRI he knew right away he couldn't do anything else for me and didn't try to string along the treatments.

 

 

That has everything to do with liability. There have been several cases over the years where chiropractors have attempted to fix things that were well beyond their ability and ended up severely hurting people.

[beam]

 

Originally posted by burdizzos That has everything to do with liability. There have been several cases over the years where chiropractors have attempted to fix things that were well beyond their ability and ended up severely hurting people.

 

 

That's the fault of the practitioner, not the science.

[burdizzos]

 

Originally posted by beam That's the fault of the practitioner, not the science.

 

 

Where's the science?

 

The practitioners will do whatever it takes to get the patient to believe the process is working and most of the time it works.

[beam]

 

Originally posted by burdizzos Where's the science? The practitioners will do whatever it takes to get the patient to believe the process is working and most of the time it works.

 

 

Well that's kind of a cynical view. The profession doesn't automatically make you a con-artist you know. There are Chiropracters out there who are honest, and will only do adjustments when they honestly feel it would be beneficial. My dad goes to one who only does adjustments if he feels it's absolutely necessary. He has sent my dad to an orthopedic doctor before, regarding his back, because there was something he knew and adjustment wouldn't fix.

 

I'm not going to say that there aren't bad chiropratcters out there, just like there aren't bad doctors out there.

 

As for the science, there are plenty of arguments on both sides for and against out there on the web for you to read. The AMA isn't particularly fond of Chiropractic therapy, though a lot of insurance companies cover it as treatment.

[rikshaw]

the place that i was going to had two different chiros. one was young, he would take his time, listen, and was fantastic. the other was this old guy that "knew everything" even without listening. he really sucked

[burdizzos]

That's the thing, real doctors don't like it and usually advise against it.

 

I think it is a safe assumption to say that most chiropractors are safe and work within their bounds, but there's no real proof that they are actually doing anything other than making people believe that they feel better.

 

45 states have mandatory inclusion for chiropractic care within insurance policies issued withn those states.

 

As someone who pays for insurance, I'm pissed that I have to foot the bill for this kind of crap.

[beam]

Originally posted by burdizzos That's the thing, real doctors don't like it and usually advise against it. I think it is a safe assumption to say that most chiropractors are safe and work within their bounds, but there's no real proof that they are actually doing anything other than making people believe that they feel better.

 

I'll agree with most of this, though I don't buy into the placebo effect.

 

 

Originally posted by burdizzos 45 states have mandatory inclusion for chiropractic care within insurance policies issued withn those states. As someone who pays for insurance, I'm pissed that I have to foot the bill for this kind of crap.

 

 

Well, just add that to the list of things you pay for that you get pissed about

[burdizzos]

 

Originally posted by rikshaw the place that i was going to had two different chiros. one was young, he would take his time, listen, and was fantastic. the other was this old guy that "knew everything" even without listening. he really sucked

 

 

But the old guy who knew everything probably did great work for people who like to be told what to do.

 

People resond differently to those two types of stimulus. You like to have someone take the time to explain what's going on and understand why it works. Others prefer the authoritative approach. With both syles on staff, they double their income by having a staff assistant size up potential clients.

[burdizzos]

Originally posted by beam I'll agree with most of this, though I don't buy into the placebo effect. Well, just add that to the list of things you pay for that you get pissed about

 

 

Of course you don't buy into the placebo effect, it would undermine your beliefs.

 

People are the same way about Jesus.

 

Chiropractic is a lot like religion in that respect.

[rikshaw]

 

Originally posted by burdizzos But the old guy who knew everything probably did great work for people who like to be told what to do. People resond differently to those two types of stimulus. You like to have someone take the time to explain what's going on and understand why it works. Others prefer the authoritative approach. With both syles on staff, they double their income by having a staff assistant size up potential clients.

 

 

what i meant to say, but didnt, was that the older guy didnt know what he was doing. he was a quack

[burdizzos]

 

Originally posted by rikshaw what i meant to say, but didnt, was that the older guy didnt know what he was doing. he was a quack

 

 

I'm sure he is a quack, but I wonder how many satisfied clients he has.

[beam]

Originally posted by burdizzos Of course you don't buy into the placebo effect, it would undermine your beliefs. People are the same way about Jesus. Chiropractic is a lot like religion in that respect.

 

 

Well I think you are making a few assumptions about me...but that's not new You don't really know jack about what I think about a lot of things, or anywhere near what my beliefs, if any, might be.

 

I think you finding Chiropractic therapy to be usefull would undermine your general cynical view on most things, but that's my opinion.

[burdizzos]

Originally posted by beam Well I think you are making a few assumptions about me...but that's not new You don't really know jack about what I think about a lot of things, or anywhere near what my beliefs, if any, might be. I think you finding Chiropractic therapy to be usefull would undermine your general cynical view on most things, but that's my opinion.

 

Slow down killer, I was making one single statement about your beliefs. You stated that you believe in chiropractic, that's all I was talking about.

 

If you accepted that chiropractic care was placebo based treatment, you'd have to change your opinion on chiropractic care.

 

That's all, nothing more.

 

I don't care to know jack abaout you, it has no impact on my life.

 

The jesus reference was just a comparison with another popular placebo.

[beam]

Originally posted by burdizzos Slow down killer, I was making one single statement about your beliefs. You stated that you believe in chiropractic, that's all I was talking about. If you accepted that chiropractic care was placebo based treatment, you'd have to change your opinion on chiropractic care. That's all, nothing more. I don't care to know jack abaout you, it has no impact on my life. The jesus reference was just a comparison with another popular placebo.

 

Alrighty, no harm, no foul

I should have chosen different words though. "Belief" is a strong word that implies I don't think it could possibly be wrong, that isn't so.

 

To be more accurate, I'm pretty sure that Chiropractic care isn't a placebo effect and that it does indeed have some positive physical impact for certain ailments. Could it be a load of tripe? Sure. I don't think it is, but I'm not totally discounting the possibility.

 

I was talking to my dad about it, because he goes to one occasionally. He said it doesn't always work for him, but more often than not, it is effective.

[scarecrowbob]

Regardless of the status of chiropractic treatment, if it helps people, it is doing its job.

 

Personally, I would be very nervous going to one, but then, I don't go in for accupuncture, either. I don't delieve in the divinity of Jesus Christ, either.

 

However, there are people who really believe that these things help, so I don't see how you can dismiss it as legitimate treatment for its lack of scientific rigor. In fact, I think that trying to dismiss it because of its lack of rigor is on par with trying to maintain that it works in a scientific manner.

 

Things can "work" without scientific rigor.

 

But hey, you can continue your aggro quest to make everything a personal drain on your personal cash flow, ala "As someone who pays for insurance, I'm pissed that I have to foot the bill for this kind of cap." I suppose that this kind of relationship to your fellow citizens fulfulls some need; I suspect it is a similar kind of need as is fufilled by chiropracty and christ.

 

If it works for folks, it would be difficut to dismiss it as crap.

[PaulyWally]

Chiropractic Care is a sound medical treatment. But like any sound medical treatment, the person administering such care could be a total bonehead.

 

Physicians

Surgeons

Massage Therapists

Physical Therapists

Chiropractors

Acupunture/pressure Specialists

 

Hell... boneheads don't just appear in the healthcare field either.

 

burdizzos, you displayed some unrest about paying your insurance for someone else to obtain chiropractic care. Likewise, I don't enjoy paying my insurance premiums for someone to have a routine visit to physician that is as dumb as a bag-o-hammers. I also don't like paying for a fat-ass's triple bypass surgury because he couldn't lay off the Big Macs.

 

But it can't be stopped... cause there ARE idiots EVERYWHERE. And even an idiot can graduate from medical school. Speaking of which, were you also aware that Chiropractors have to endure nearly just as much schooling as medical doctors?

 

The point is... Chiropractic Care, in and of itself, is a proven treatment to many physical ailments. It doesn't claim to cure everything... and it certainly is not some kind of snake oil. But it has a deserving place within the healthcare industry.

[PaulyWally]

Originally posted by scarecrowbob I don't see how you can dismiss it as legitimate treatment for its lack of scientific rigor. In fact, I think that trying to dismiss it because of its lack of rigor is on par with trying to maintain that it works in a scientific manner. Things can "work" without scientific rigor.

 

This is the thought pattern that is most disturbing to me. BTW, I'm not picking on you scarecrowbob, you just happened to be the one that mentioned it.

 

What western civilization doesn't realize, is that most "natural" therapies are based on centuries of data. Just because we are ignorant to that fact, doesn't make it less so. Chiropractic care, acupunture, acupressure, herbal remedies, etc... they have more historical foundation than current remedies of the U.S.

 

The American medical industry is, for all intents and purposes, less than 100 years old. Prior to last century... much of it was based on astrology. That's why a patient's file is called a "chart". The first thing a patient would have done at the doctor, was to have their astrological birth chart drawn up, and it stayed with the doctor. Much of the patient's treatment was based off of that.

 

Makes ya think, don't it?

 

While we may be "technologically advanced"... we are not "historically proven".

[J.]

Chiropractic care is good science in my opinion, although I agree with the common observation that there are a lot of quacks in the field. It definitely does something to you physically, that's for sure. When I first saw a chiropracter I thought it was a joke, but he really worked things out. I saw another guy later on that didn't do anything at all.

 

I think massage therapy is a very underrated form of treatment. My aunt is a neuromuscular therapist and she has a huge list of clientele. There's a huge difference between a trained therapist and someone just giving backrubs though.

[Zooberwerx]

Many of the tenets of chiropractic medicine simply don't hold up under the scrutiny of scientific inquiry.

 

Riis