Members SpruceApple Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 Our acoustic trio is looking at a Bose PAS with double bass modules. The bass would go into channel 3 or 4, so no presets will be available. Has anyone played bass through one of these? What type of preamp / processor did you use? We're playing small clubs, up to 200 people. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WildPotato Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 Hi. I don't have any experience with these but if I recall correctly the general consensus is that they are overpriced and crap for bass. Try searching the forum for related threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 2, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 Originally posted by SpruceApple Our acoustic trio is looking at a Bose PAS with double bass modules. The bass would go into channel 3 or 4, so no presets will be available. Has anyone played bass through one of these? What type of preamp / processor did you use? We're playing small clubs, up to 200 people.Thanks for the help. I have. They sound okay. Just okay. No way two B-1's will do for bass in a 200 person room. And no way one L-1 is enough to carry the whole band. The idea is one unit for each performer. Seems fine until you total the price, and then start piling up the bass units for bass. The coup de grace is when you realize there's no good way to mic the drumkit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boseengineer Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 I'm certainly not the most objective source of information so take whatever I say with a grain of salt. I encourage you to seek information from people who actually tried it and/or are using it. One good source is our message board at http://bose.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x and specifically the bass guitar section at http://bose.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/frm/f/7466055944 . You can ask questions and chat with real users and also Bose staff. You have to be the judge of how Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cortfan Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 My band uses 2 Bose PAS "sticks" for the entire 4 piece band. We have lead guitar, bass guitar (me), keys, Roland V-Pro drums, and 3 vocal mics. We have used this setup for more than 6 months. Most of our gigs are regular size bars, and private parties, including our July 4th outdoor gig for about 300 people. My stick has 2 B1 subs. The other has 1 B1. We use a Mackie mixer for the mics, and I run thru a POD 2.0 (guitar unit) for my bass. The guitarist runs thru a Line 6 XT Live. We have had no complaints, except that we need to turn down. Load in, and out time has been reduced to less than 1 hour. We put everything in the back of an Avalanche 4 door pick up. Is it a perfect system? No. We don't have any plans to change anything. For larger venues, we have 2 complete conventional P.A. systems. The Line 6 boards and the Roland drums really make the Bose systems work like it is supposed to. P.S. We paid retail for this stuff. None of us work for Bose, or Line 6. We will eventually get another PAS and 1 more B1. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Detox Posted September 2, 2005 Members Share Posted September 2, 2005 Does it still work effectively if any one instrumentalist in a band uses one, while the other band members insist on using their traditional style amps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boseengineer Posted September 3, 2005 Members Share Posted September 3, 2005 Yes it does. That Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jbryant8159 Posted September 3, 2005 Members Share Posted September 3, 2005 I'm not a Bose fan at all but do have to admit that for an acoustic trio doing small to mid size venues it would be a good choice. I recently saw a 5 piece acoustic band play at a friend's bar with one. At first it sounded thin. During the first break I chatted up the singer about how she liked the system. She thought it was great. When I told her that I thought the EQ on the system was off and that they needed more mids to carry the room (odd size and shape) and some extra bottom for the acoustic bass she advised the guy in the band who handles that to try the changes. Big difference. Darn good sound overall afterwards. I guess it would make sense to have someone in the crowd be your objective ears so that after a number or two you can dial in the sound for the venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Detox Posted September 3, 2005 Members Share Posted September 3, 2005 boseng...thanks for the info! Too bad I never got around to seeing the Brothers Groove band locally, as they were all using the Bose gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boseengineer Posted September 3, 2005 Members Share Posted September 3, 2005 Originally posted by Detox boseng...thanks for the info!Too bad I never got around to seeing the Brothers Groove band locally, as they were all using the Bose gear. no prob, hope it helps.The Brothers Groove are a great band to see (Bose system or not) and they are really nice guys too. Catch them if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpruceApple Posted September 5, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 5, 2005 Thanks for all the input. BoseEngineer (and others) - I have checked out the Bose forum, and it is helpful, but it seems that most of the posters are using the presets on channels 1 or 2 for the bass input. In our case, we will be using either channel 3 or 4 where no presets are available. We tried out the Bose PAS on Saturday in a mid-size club with about 150 people. It certainly produced plenty of bass volume, but I am more interested in how to dial in a good bass tone without using one of the presets. What type of eq. or processor should I consider? We were able to get a good sound for vocals and acoustic guitar, with plenty of volume. Being able to fully hear our FOH mix is really a huge benefit - it seemed like we played more dynamically and intricately, with better detail. The acoustic guitar was routed through a Baggs PADI and into channel 4. I had to eq the PADI heavily, but ultimately got a good tone. I just wasn't satisfied with the bass tone. It was plugged direct into channel 3, with no preamp or eq. It needs something for eq or processing, I just don't know what unit or combination of units to try. Suggestions please...the 45 day clock is ticking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Deville Posted September 5, 2005 Members Share Posted September 5, 2005 Originally posted by SpruceApple I just wasn't satisfied with the bass tone. It was plugged direct into channel 3, with no preamp or eq. It needs something for eq or processing, I just don't know what unit or combination of units to try. Suggestions please...the 45 day clock is ticking. SansAmp Bass Driver DI, or MXR M-80 Bass DI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boseengineer Posted September 5, 2005 Members Share Posted September 5, 2005 If I go in through channel 3 and 4, I just use the tone control on my bass. But then again, I have an active bass with very efficient controls. If you can't get there with the internal controls or you want a bit of "grunge", I second the idea of a preamp or outboard EQ. Many people report good results with the SansAmp. Something like the Line 6 Bass Pod XT or Bass Pod XT live give quite a number of flexibility and sound choices. Other people have prefer a real tube preamp. It depends mostly on the sound you want and the style you are playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpruceApple Posted September 6, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 6, 2005 Thanks again. Here's a little more information on our acoustic trio... We play 60's and 70's folk rock covers, songs by Simon and Garfunkel, CSN, Beatles, Neil Young, James Taylor, Everly Brothers, Dobie Gray, Poco, Loggins and Messina, Eagles, Pure Prairie League, Dave Mason, Marshall Tucker....you get the idea. Vocals/harmonies define our sound, bass and guitar give us a foundation and groove. Our bass player (my wife) is playing a Jay Turser beatle bass with passive controls and nothing in the way of tone shaping. She likes the playability of the short scale, the light weight, and the look. I am more interested in the tone. Nothing fancy, just a solid bass tone that fits this music. I'll spend the bucks for a POD XTLive or similar if necesary, but if there's a cheaper alternative, that would be OK too. She's using an external non-pedal tuner right now, so something with a built-in tuner is a plus. Thanks again for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PrestiaRules Posted September 6, 2005 Members Share Posted September 6, 2005 Originally posted by SpruceApple Our bass player (my wife) is playing a Jay Turser beatle bass with passive controls and nothing in the way of tone shaping. She likes the playability of the short scale, the light weight, and the look. I am more interested in the tone. Nothing fancy, just a solid bass tone that fits this music.I'll spend the bucks for a POD XTLive or similar if necesary, but if there's a cheaper alternative, that would be OK too. She's using an external non-pedal tuner right now, so something with a built-in tuner is a plus.Thanks again for the help. well if you wanted to try a cheap option that might work you could experiement with the Behringer Bass V-Amp (pod knockoff) or their BDDI (Sans Amp knock off) I have used the BDDI for a bit of warmth etc. switching from rig to rig at different bars etc. edit: it is a decent little tool and for $30 is worth the change....I think it might fatten up the beatle bass sound and it has a 2 band EQ with a drive and blend setting. It isn't perfect but I have been able to get a few good sounds from it. Also look for a TubeWorks Blue Tube bass driver used on ebay..just got one a while ago and it seems to offer some decent (low gain/drive) sounds from the single tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 6, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted September 6, 2005 Oh, so sorry, didn't know you were talking about a Beatle-bass knockoff. Not much you can do to help that. j/k Do you have drums, or is this a bass/two guitars trio? What is the actual budget you plan to spend for reinforcement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jazz Ad Posted September 6, 2005 Members Share Posted September 6, 2005 They should be perfect for an acoustic band, although there are much cheaper solutions for the same kind of results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpruceApple Posted September 7, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 7, 2005 We are acoustic only, no drums. 1-2 guitars, 1 bass, vocals. 1 PAS with double bass modules is definitely adequate for our venues. Plenty of volume for all frequencies. We have been using EV powered speakers for guitars and vocals, and a Carvin amp for the bass. This setup produces an excellent sound for our style and plenty of volume for the rooms we play, but monitoring is a challenge, especially in loud rooms. After a couple of weeks use I can say that Bose's hype about musicians being able to hear each other better, and subsequently playing more dynamically is no hype for us. Our vocal harmonies have never been better (at least as far as we know or can hear) and the PAS has also helped me to not "overplay" on my acoustic guitar. The PAS has excellent clarity for guitars and vocals. Setup is also a breeze, which becomes more of an issue with each passing year. We just need to find a better bass tone.....more suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 7, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 Since everything else about the PAS is working for you, have you experimented with using a bass amp you like along with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boseengineer Posted September 7, 2005 Members Share Posted September 7, 2005 I'm glad to hear that our system seems to work well for your application (with the exception of the bass, that is). If you are not comfortable with any of the pre-amps suggested here, you could try and outboard EQ like this http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/151324/ or a litte more advanced (and one channel to spare), this http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/183527/ You haven't given us any feedback yet on whether you've tried any of the suggestions yet and/or what you like, didn't like about, so it's a little difficult to steer you in a specific direction. Let me summarize some options with some rough pricing. $100: simple 7-10 band EQ, will basic tone shaping but requires a little workhttp://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/151324/ $140: Boss MXR M-80, DI boxhttp://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/search/detail/base_id/56698/src=00631 $190: sans-amp DI, easy to work with, can add some grunge, basic tone shapinghttp://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/480206/ $200: 3rd octave EQ, advanced tone shaping but somewhat tricky to operatehttp://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/183527/ $300: Bass Pod XT: advanced digital modeling of many different amps/cabs etc. Lots of effects toohttp://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/482249/ $300: Tube DI, very little or no tone shaping but great overdrivehttp://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_id/115852 $400: Bass Pod XT live: same as Bass Pod but integrated in a foot pedalhttp://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/150396/ $500: full featured tube preamphttp://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=bass/search/detail/base_pid/481842/ From what I can tell from your application, you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members picker13 Posted September 7, 2005 Members Share Posted September 7, 2005 I have no experience with the system, but do think it is unfortunate on Bose's part that they labeled the device the "PAS" which is too close to the old anacronym "POS". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 7, 2005 CMS Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 The trouble is, not all of us are all that thrilled with the sansamp/pod/DI thing, and for a single-point system like this, it's not as if you can run the sansamp through FOH and let the sound guy do his thing, and you can be happy with your stage sound from the bass amp. What you push through the PAS is what everyone gets, so you really have to be happy with whatever preamp box you ultimately wind up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cortfan Posted September 7, 2005 Members Share Posted September 7, 2005 For what you are doing, I think my setup might work for you. I use a POD 2.0 (yes, the guitar one) for my bass, into channel 3 or 4. I don't need many effects and don't use cabinet modeling. I do use the eq knobs, the tuner, and basic effects, such as reverb, chorus, flanger, delay, just very lightly. POD 2.0's are going cheap. I really don't see any benefits of the Bass POD, or the XT for what I need. I have 2 B1 subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boseengineer Posted September 8, 2005 Members Share Posted September 8, 2005 Originally posted by Craigv ... it's not as if you can run the sansamp through FOH and let the sound guy do his thing, and you can be happy with your stage sound from the bass amp. What you push through the PAS is what everyone gets ... Personally I feel that's a good thing. Unless I had a soundperson I'd work (and rehearse) with on a regular basis, I'm much more comfortable with myself being in charge of the bass sound rather than the average "sound guy doing his thing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpruceApple Posted September 9, 2005 Author Members Share Posted September 9, 2005 Originally posted by Craigv What you push through the PAS is what everyone gets, so you really have to be happy with whatever preamp box you ultimately wind up with. This is exactly how I'm looking at this situation. I am also trying to simplify our rig to minimize gear-schlepping and setup/teardown effort and time while maintaining excellent tone. This is why I'd like to avoid using a separate bass amp if possible. BoseEngineer - thanks for the list, very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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