Depressed... Oil prices are just gonna keep on rising and rising...

[isaac42]

Originally posted by hawkhuff You have your pessimism and I will carry on with my optimism. Two points of view.

I don't see my point of view as pessimism. I haven't said that what you propose won't happen. I have said that it isn't a given that it will happen. Your position is irrational, in that it assumes a positive outcome. It ain't necessarily so.

[isaac42]

Originally posted by hawkhuff At this point in time this idea is not realistic. The space ships run on and has much lower power demands than does a motor vehicle. Solar panels work well up there but not as well down here, at least for motor vehicles. Also there would be a large weight problem on the planet whereas it isn't a problem in outer space.

Pessimist.

[Tlaloc]

Gas went down to $2.99 here today.

 

Ohhhh sweet low prices. :D

 

[NeonVomit]

There are some places that solar power could work. Like in New Mexico. Theres other places it wouldn't. Like Iceland.

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by namlssboy Solar panels on cars are a joke, I'm talking about generators run by hydroelectric and wind power. Then storing that energy in a high capacity battery which will run a motor with low power consumption. Hawkhuff, is your glass half empty?

No, but I think yours is.

 

All that hydroelectric power generated for car batteries will take away from the power generated for homes and businesses. That in all likelihood won't happen.

 

You would have to make an awful lot of solar panels to power all the batteries for all the vehicles.

 

There is no long term 'high' storage capacity batteries that exist. That is one of the main technological problems with solar energy.

 

The batteries for satellites are short term the solar panels are near direct suppliers.

 

Wind farms have been overruled by the courts and shut down by organizations like the Sierra Club. Wind power is not a reliable source of power due to unpredictable weather patterns and may only be used in certain areas of the country.

 

You should read up on the issues before arguing them. There is no simple answer like the ones you pose here.

 

My glass is half full and I do believe there will be a way. Deride and ridicule me for that if you like and have a good time.

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by isaac42 Pessimist.

Not pessimism just fact.

 

You should look up the terms so you won't confuse them the next time.

[ezstep]

 

Originally posted by hawkhuff I don't believe that 39% profit for any company is a bad profit nor is it price gouging. Keep in mind the oil industry keeps millions employed. Many get rich and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

 

 

Small point to make here.

 

 

The 39% is NOT 39% profit. It is a 39% INCREASE in quarterly profits. The overall profit percentage may actually still be in the 5% or 6% range - maybe less, net. The increase in money made the increase in quarterly earnings, but it has no effect on the actually percentage of profit, unless the oil companies are charging more while paying the same for their costs. Don't forget, too, that when the medical industry charges more, it will make gas, tires, cars, the cost of orange juice, etc., EVERYTHING will go up because those "evil companies" have to pay medical benefits.

 

Its all a circle, with me sitting on my pile of ExxonMobil stocks!

*yeah, right - I WISH*

[isaac42]

Originally posted by NeonVomit There are some places that solar power could work. Like in New Mexico. Theres other places it wouldn't. Like Iceland.

Iceland doesn't need it. It's the geothermal capital of the world.

[isaac42]

Originally posted by hawkhuff Not pessimism just fact. You should look up the terms so you won't confuse them the next time.

Funny, that's pretty much what I said to you: not pessimism, just fact.

[Detox]

We should just hook up to interplanetary magnetism and call it a day.

[lug]

Hydroelectric in quantity will require more large reservoirs of water to dam. To construct these we will simply need more released water from the ice caps. The way to achieve this is to gently warm the earth a bit....yes, the answer is global warming.

[bassmaniac]

We need cars like the Flintstones have!

[NeonVomit]

Some people say that we're due in for another Ice Age, but global warming is putting it off.

 

Hows that for optimism?

[bassmaniac]

Just put your car in neutral...get out and push it..uses no gas at all!!

 

...but seriously we have to pick a day where NO ONE drives, except for people that the community depends on to keep necessary things going (like hospital workers).

 

I refused to drive my car on labor day week end. My wife and I walked to the mall and restaurants.

 

...and like M-1 Fan said:

"Beer is still a good bargain. Stay home, drink beer, play music". I did that too!

[Gfunkk44]

The oil companies are making a nice profit... and to the response about music being the same as oil companies... i don't believe in stealing peoples money, HOWEVER, oil is a resource, not an extra it most circumstances... it does differ.

 

But besides that, the future will be Hydrogen COMBUSTION, not hydrogen fuel cell. We already have technology in the works, that allow hydrogen to power cars, and industrial components in nearly the same way gasoline works... that is their would be no "culture or technology shock" with the way things work, engine still runs, still goto fuel stations, except we would never run out of hydrogen, and the engine would be 99.99% polutant free.

 

And contrary to popular belif the storage tanks are not any more dangerous than current gasoline containers. The only two real problems we face is how to store it, right now the safe way to store compressed hydrogen is to chill it. Once we can figure out an effective way to keep it cold without using alot of energy, all that is left is harvisting it.

 

Right now we get alot of hydrogen from natural gas (methane). Using electrolosis we could get this from water.. however it takes a great deal of energy to do so. So this exact idea of using hydrogen might not be cost effective till possibly a type of fusion is actually working... But it's deffinatly possible and likely.

[isaac42]

But, as you correctly point out, hydrogen isn't really a fuel. It's more of an energy storage medium. The energy to make the hydrogen still has to come from somewhere, and fusion isn't on the horizon quite yet.

 

For myself, I'm thinking of going to solar-electric roof tiles when I re-roof my house. Every little bit helps.

[namlssboy]

And, who is working on the hydrogen fuel cell technology...the oil companies. It's gonna be the same thing.

[isaac42]

 

Originally posted by namlssboy And, who is working on the hydrogen fuel cell technology...the oil companies. It's gonna be the same thing.

Wouldn't you, in their position? After all, who knows better how much longer the oil will last than the oil companies?

 

I also think it's telling that they're investing their money in stuff like this rather than in exploring for new oil fields. I'm sure they'd be looking for new strikes if they thought there was much chance of finding any.

[Gfunkk44]

 

Originally posted by namlssboy And, who is working on the hydrogen fuel cell technology...the oil companies. It's gonna be the same thing.

 

 

Actually no, the primary researching for hydrogen technology has focus largley around government efforts, AND the automotive industry. That in itself is the key right there... automotive. It's the only reason I honestly believe it's anywhere near the horizon in terms of development.

 

I don't know if alot of people know this or not, but right now the auto industry is feeling a very large pinch.. not only because gas is high, but because emission problems are becomming so hard to get around these days, they realize an alternative must need to happen.

 

It's still a little while off, but both ford and gm invested an estimated 3 billion dollars into "alternative fuels." an egineering friend of mine, said US automakers know hybrid isn't the way to go, it's merly a gimick, and the only real reason they are doing it, is forign product response. The cost of replacing the batteries will pretty much kill the hybrid market in 3-5 years, and emission standards are already starting to stretch the limit of fuel injection technology, and EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) systems. Something has to be done.

 

I really and honestly truly belive that in the comming years, the auto industry is going to try and force it's hand to a degree with hydrogen. There's a few ambitious people out there who have a few... unconventional approaches to current technological standards, and these are the people who are going to help us get out of the oil age.

 

I think alot of people, including law makers ignornatly forget the fact that our economy does not depend on OIL, it depends on CHEAP OIL!

 

Look im not saying I have all the answers, and that we still might be paying 50 bucks for a fill up... all im saying is there are deffinatly alternatives out there that we must legitimately explore, and this is a promising one... maybe not for another 10 to 15 years... but you know what, if I am presented with the possibility of emission free vehicles in 15 years, im deffinatly gonna invest some time in that. The glass is half full in my eye.

[namlssboy]

duh........................................what!

[DanTolen]

 

Originally posted by Gfunkk44 Actually no, the primary researching for hydrogen technology has focus largley around government efforts, AND the automotive industry. That in itself is the key right there... automotive. It's the only reason I honestly believe it's anywhere near the horizon in terms of development... I don't know if alot of people know this or not, but right now the auto industry is feeling a very large pinch.. not only because gas is high, but because emission problems are becomming so hard to get around these days, they realize an alternative must need to happen. IT's still a little while off, but both ford and gm invested an estimated 3 billion dollars into "alternative fuels." an egineering friend of mine, said US automakers know hybrid isn't the way to go, it's merly a gimick, and the only real reason they are doing it, is forign product response. The cost of replacing the batteries will pretty much kill the hybrid market in 3-5 years, and emission standards are already starting to stretch the limit of fuel injection technology, and EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) systems. Something has to be done. I really and honestly truly belive that in the comming years, the auto industry is going to try and force it's hand to a degree with hydrogen. There's a few ambitious people out there who have a few... unconventional approaches to current technological standards, and these are the people who are going to help us get out of the oil age... I think alot of people, including law makers ignornatly forget the fact that our economy does not depend on OIL, it depends on CHEAP OIL! Look im not saying I have all the answers, and that we still might be paying 50 bucks for a fill up... all im saying is there are deffinatly alternatives out there that we must legitimately explore, and this is a promising one... maybe not for another 10 to 15 years... but you know what, if I am presented with the possibility of emission free vehicles in 15 years, im deffinatly gonna invest some time in that. The glass is half full in my eye.

 

 

Could you please split that up into paragraphs? My eyes hurt.

[Gfunkk44]

that should be better

[isaac42]

Originally posted by Gfunkk44 Actually no, the primary researching for hydrogen technology has focus largley around government efforts, AND the automotive industry. That in itself is the key right there... automotive. It's the only reason I honestly believe it's anywhere near the horizon in terms of development. I don't know if alot of people know this or not, but right now the auto industry is feeling a very large pinch.. not only because gas is high, but because emission problems are becomming so hard to get around these days, they realize an alternative must need to happen. It's still a little while off, but both ford and gm invested an estimated 3 billion dollars into "alternative fuels." an egineering friend of mine, said US automakers know hybrid isn't the way to go, it's merly a gimick, and the only real reason they are doing it, is forign product response. The cost of replacing the batteries will pretty much kill the hybrid market in 3-5 years, and emission standards are already starting to stretch the limit of fuel injection technology, and EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) systems. Something has to be done. I really and honestly truly belive that in the comming years, the auto industry is going to try and force it's hand to a degree with hydrogen. There's a few ambitious people out there who have a few... unconventional approaches to current technological standards, and these are the people who are going to help us get out of the oil age. I think alot of people, including law makers ignornatly forget the fact that our economy does not depend on OIL, it depends on CHEAP OIL! Look im not saying I have all the answers, and that we still might be paying 50 bucks for a fill up... all im saying is there are deffinatly alternatives out there that we must legitimately explore, and this is a promising one... maybe not for another 10 to 15 years... but you know what, if I am presented with the possibility of emission free vehicles in 15 years, im deffinatly gonna invest some time in that. The glass is half full in my eye.

Okay, but talk is cheap. what have you got? Who are some of these ambitious people with unconventional approaches?

[Oddsock]

As far as alternate energy sources go, I think solar towers are pretty interesting.

http://www.enviromission.com.au/

[gnurph]

I have gas... and my wife's trying to make me sleep on the couch No, seriously, the absurd gas prices (read: past 4+ years) are the primary reason I still don't have a car and haven't even gotten a liscence yet. In summers (well, late May to late October) I ride my bicycle to and from work (only 5 miles, and I could use the exercise). Public transportation (bus only, here) for most other things year round. In winters, bus to work and $10 a week to pay a guy to drive me home. My point, if I have one, is- I'm so far getting by without a car of my own. I mean, it's just a car, not like anything important- bass, guitar, amp, strings, fx pedals, guitar magazines, etc etc etc.....