Depressed... Oil prices are just gonna keep on rising and rising...

[BEAD]

Originally posted by lug ****** In the most recent study of profit per gallon, the American Petroleum Institute concluded that oil company profits amounted to an estimated 7.3 cents on each gallon sold.1 This estimate represents an industry average, but a multitude of factors can affect an individual oil company's profit on gasoline sales. ******* source: http://www.conocophillips.com/newsroom/other_resources/energyanswers/oil_profits.htm

I wonder how truthful conoco phillips' site really is.

[cthulhu0]

Originally posted by chunkathalon I wonder how truthful conoco phillips' site really is.

 

 

isn;t he the first to yell "bias" whenever a newspaper is cited? but we have to trust a study done by and oil company, ABOUT and oil company?

 

and their margin vrs other industries is comparing apples to oranges.other industries may have larger (on average) margins, but they are not as big any industry.

 

they're profits, for the last quarter, grew 39%(!) for a total profit of ~10bil. this quarter alone. i'd cite the newspaper article, but they are biased filthy lib'ruls.

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by chunkathalon I wonder how truthful conoco phillips' site really is.

Gas has dropped here by $0.25.

Increase in use = increase in demand
Increasing deand = increase price
Decrease supply = increasing price

Oil Company = lies
Current Administration = racist, evil, lies
Any big corporation = evil, lies

Democrat party = truth
AP, NY Times, CNN = truth

[lug]

Originally posted by cthulhu0 isn;t he the first to yell "bias" whenever a newspaper is cited? but we have to trust a study done by and oil company, ABOUT and oil company? and their margin vrs other industries is comparing apples to oranges.other industries may have larger (on average) margins, but they are not as big any industry. they're profits, for the last quarter, grew 39%(!) for a total profit of ~10bil. this quarter alone. i'd cite the newspaper article, but they are biased filthy lib'ruls.

Are you talking about me with the "bias" comment? BTW, the reason "I" provided the source was to point out it may have been slightly biased. But I'm sure the 7.3 cents isn't far off. Here is another picture for you to look at:



source:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/gas-price2.htm

notice the taxes and crude price percentages in the cost of a gallon of gasoline and then tell me how it's just the "evil oil company" gouging us.

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by NeonVomit Drilling for oil in Alaska... that's gonna go down REALLY well with a large section of the population Anyone who drives a hybrid/alternative powered car is just laughing at the rest of us now.

Yeah, until they have to fork over 2 grand for a replacement battery.

We need to build more refineries. We need to build more nuke plants and we NEED to drill in Alaska and off the coast of Florida.

If only the party in power had the balls to stand up to the liberal media.

[lug]

Originally posted by hawkhuff Yeah, until they have to fork over 2 grand for a replacement battery. We need to build more refineries. We need to build more nuke plants and we NEED to drill in Alaska and off the coast of Florida. If only the party in power had the balls to stand up to the liberal media.

and we NEED to get those baby seal biofuel plants up and running!

[cthulhu0]

lug, can we get something alittle more recent than 2002? and where, in that pic, is the profit margin? according to that, they are giving us gas out of the goodness of their hearts. once the set up costs are paid, past maintainance and worker salaries, the crude is 100% profit. they pay nothing for it. this graph only shows the breakdown on end product gas at the pump.

noone posts a 39% profit gain in one quarter. they have us by the short hairs and they know it. i just don;t understand why you defend them. i don;t believe in "evil" corps. i'm not a liberal. i'm a libertarian. but i can see that i'm getting shafted by a company for no reason. i believe everyone is entitled to profit from their activities, but i don;y believe that they have the right to do so by exploiting others and or/ subverting the government.

and we are right now reaping the profits of the biofuel plants. only the process was started several million years ago. only it was primitive flora and fauna. can;t guerrentee that it was seals, baby or otherwise.

[lug]

Originally posted by cthulhu0 lug, can we get something alittle more recent than 2002? and where, in that pic, is the profit margin? according to that, they are giving us gas out of the goodness of their hearts. once the set up costs are paid, past maintainance and worker salaries, the crude is 100% profit. they pay nothing for it. this graph only shows the breakdown on end product gas at the pump. noone posts a 39% profit gain in one quarter. they have us by the short hairs and they know it. i just don;t understand why you defend them. i don;t believe in "evil" corps. i'm not a liberal. i'm a libertarian. but i can see that i'm getting shafted by a company for no reason. i believe everyone is entitled to profit from their activities, but i don;y believe that they have the right to do so by exploiting others and or/ subverting the government. and we are right now reaping the profits of the biofuel plants. only the process was started several million years ago. only it was primitive flora and fauna. can;t guerrentee that it was seals, baby or otherwise.

 

 

The pic was the most unbiased source I could find and I'm sure I'm not the only one with access to google. The profit is tied in the pic if you look closely. My point is profits have little to do with the cost you are paying.

Let's do a little math for an example:

 

Last yer gas costs 1 dollar

imaginary breakdown:

50% is crude prices

30% is tax

29% is refining and distribution

1% is profit

 

I make 1 penny a gallon, that is my profit.

 

This year gas costs 2 dollars

imaginary breakdown:

50% is crude prices

30% is taxes

29% is refining and distribution

1% is profit

 

I make 2 pennies a gallon, that's a gain of 100% profit! But, it has very little to do with why you now pay double for your gas.

 

And in actuallity the Crude price is now a much BIGGER percentage of the overall price than last year and hence the reason you are paying much more at the pump. I's sure most of the profit is higher sales amounts of gasoline, not price gouging. Will some price gouge? sure. But in the big picture, that has little to do with the overal price, longterm. Crude prices and government taxs are the huge part. We should be screaming at the outragous tax rate more than anything. I just don't think the government should make a LOT more per gallon than the companies that produce and ship it.

[isaac42]

The world changes. Nothing remains the same forever.

[mcantafi]

Ride a skateboard. Chicks love it, and it'll cost you from 50 - 200 bucks. replace your bearings twice a year for $20. I live in an oil town, and it's ridiculous how much money this city has. The average vehicle is probably around $40 000, and the average home is now well above 200 000. Don't tell me there's no money in oil, and that they aren't making more money now than ever before. Of course the government takes its cut, but percentage wise, that's the about same amount as it's always been. The government's making more, and the oil companies are making more. Oh well. If you don't like it, don't drive. The really {censored}ty thing is that by hiking prices, they cause an increase in the price of everything else, due to increased shipping costs. That results in less buying power, and an even worse economy. Hello recession!

[J.]

Can someone give me a link of a site that explains the battery thing regarding hybrids? To be honest the first I've heard of it has been here on the forum, although a lot of you guys have been saying it. You don't hear about the hidden costs of hybrids anywhere in the print or television media. My parents are considering a Prius, and I'll dissuade them if the battery replacement thing is true.

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by cthulhu0 lug, can we get something alittle more recent than 2002? and where, in that pic, is the profit margin? according to that, they are giving us gas out of the goodness of their hearts. once the set up costs are paid, past maintainance and worker salaries, the crude is 100% profit. they pay nothing for it. this graph only shows the breakdown on end product gas at the pump. noone posts a 39% profit gain in one quarter. they have us by the short hairs and they know it. i just don;t understand why you defend them. i don;t believe in "evil" corps. i'm not a liberal. i'm a libertarian. but i can see that i'm getting shafted by a company for no reason. i believe everyone is entitled to profit from their activities, but i don;y believe that they have the right to do so by exploiting others and or/ subverting the government. and we are right now reaping the profits of the biofuel plants. only the process was started several million years ago. only it was primitive flora and fauna. can;t guerrentee that it was seals, baby or otherwise.

Let me then ask you a question.

You're a musician and I will assume a bassist; that's why you're here.

Let us say that you write some music and lyrics and they take off. In fact, you find you are the next Paul McCartney. Yes, and the money starts rolling in. :D

So much so that the music industry talking heads say you are much like McCartney, maybe better. And even more money rolls in.

How does this make you any different from the oil companies or the pharmaceutical companies? Or any other large corporation?

Capitalism is about profit.

We have enough government controls now with regard to what an oil company can do, what a pharmaceutical company can do. And you being a libertarian, should understand this.

I don't believe that 39% profit for any company is a bad profit nor is it price gouging. Keep in mind the oil industry keeps millions employed. Many get rich and there is nothing wrong with that.

Back to you. You, now being the big time song and music writer, I assure you, are making a whole lot more profit than that.

This profit on the backs of the working man mentality smacks of socialism and socialism has always been and will always be a failure as a system.

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by J. Can someone give me a link of a site that explains the battery thing regarding hybrids? To be honest the first I've heard of it has been here on the forum, although a lot of you guys have been saying it. You don't hear about the hidden costs of hybrids anywhere in the print or television media. My parents are considering a Prius, and I'll dissuade them if the battery replacement thing is true.

Sorry, I don't know of any links but the reason you won't hear much about the hybrids battery is they are too new. I believe the first year of hybrid production was last year and Toyota and Ford were the first to put cars on the market in the US. You might want to try their websites.

Anyway, I have been reading up on the batteries and this will be the major expense when the battery can no longer be recharged. Right now no one really knows how long they will last because it will depend on a host of driving factors many of which cannot be ascertained until they are out there being used by the general public.

Recharable batteries last a while but not forever. Once they are spent I have read they will cost from 2 to 3 grand to replace. Some say lease the car and turn it in before that happens. That's OK but it will pass that issue on to someone else.

Once replaced then the problem exists about what to do about the disposal of the batteries and of course, that cost will be passed on to the consumer.

There is no simple solution to this energy problem.

And, currently, there is no good trade off for fossil fuels.

Fuel cell technology holds the most promise if we can get a cheap source of hydrogen. Frequent trips to Jupiter would work.

[NeonVomit]

One thing is certain though. We're gonna run out of oil, sooner or later, and its beginning to seem like sooner. Attacking all sources of oil and hunting down every remaining drop really isn't gonna serve us well in the long run (never mind the environmental hazards and effects it'll have on the baby seals) but we will run out. And the big oil companies will basically cease to exist and the millions of jobs will be lost, unless they pump all their profits into research into new, renewable energy sources. I mean, if I was one of the people in charge now or had a large stake in an oil company, I'd be loosing a lot of sleep over this issue. Sure, some research is being done, but not nearly enough.

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by NeonVomit One thing is certain though. We're gonna run out of oil, sooner or later, and its beginning to seem like sooner. Attacking all sources of oil and hunting down every remaining drop really isn't gonna serve us well in the long run (never mind the environmental hazards and effects it'll have on the baby seals) but we will run out. And the big oil companies will basically cease to exist and the millions of jobs will be lost, unless they pump all their profits into research into new, renewable energy sources. I mean, if I was one of the people in charge now or had a large stake in an oil company, I'd be loosing a lot of sleep over this issue. Sure, some research is being done, but not nearly enough.

The current estimates are 50 years.

Thomas Edison said "necessity is the mother of invention".

We will find a way.

[NeonVomit]

Originally posted by hawkhuff The current estimates are 50 years. Thomas Edison said "necessity is the mother of invention". We will find a way.

50 years taking into account the explosion of growth in south asia? China is gonna be guzzling more fuel in 20 years than Europe and USA combined, I think. I don't actually know, but it's something to take into account.

Even if it is 50 years, that's not a hell of a lot of time to develop the technologies needed.

I know it's mankinds way to find a way. I just hope we find a way that doesnt involve us blowing up/destroying the environment.

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by NeonVomit 50 years taking into account the explosion of growth in south asia? China is gonna be guzzling more fuel in 20 years than Europe and USA combined, I think. I don't actually know, but it's something to take into account. Even if it is 50 years, that's not a hell of a lot of time to develop the technologies needed. I know it's mankinds way to find a way. I just hope we find a way that doesnt involve us blowing up/destroying the environment.

If we continue to explore we will find more. There is more to be found according to the literature.

I also believe you're right about China but don't forget India, they play a role as well.

Taking into account the current supply and demand in addition to future exploration, the estimate still comes out to about 50 years.

Fifty years is, in fact, a long time and I am optimistic we will find a way. Just think about what has happened in the last 10. It is mind boggling.

This is one reason why space exploration must continue.

I was only half kidding about Jupiter. It is a huge ball of methane and hydrogen just waiting to be tapped.

[isaac42]

Originally posted by hawkhuff Gas has dropped here by $0.25. Increase in use = increase in demand Increasing deand = increase price Decrease supply = increasing price Oil Company = lies Current Administration = racist, evil, lies Any big corporation = evil, lies

You were doing well up to this point.

Democrat party = truth AP, NY Times, CNN = truth

No, can't really trust them, either.

[isaac42]

Originally posted by hawkhuff The current estimates are 50 years. Thomas Edison said "necessity is the mother of invention". We will find a way.

Not necessarily.

Just because we always have doesn't mean we always will. There have been other situations where resources have been depleted, and no new way was found. Those societies simply ceased to exist. Easter Island springs immediately to mind. They cut all their trees, and no new resource was found. Mesopotamia was once one of the most fertile places on Earth, but long-term irrigation ruined the soil, and now it's mostly desert. We know it as Iraq.

On the other hand, ours was once a coal-based society. We transformed, not because we ran out of coal, but because we found something better, oil. We can go back to that, but it won't be easy.

One more thing: we aren't going to run out of oil. there will be oil as long as anyone here is alive, and well beyond. That doesn't mean, though, that there will be enough oil. Demand will continue to increase, and the supply will not increase to match it. That might happen in fifty years, or it might already have happened. You can find a lot more detail online, at sites like http://www.oilcrisis.com/ and http://www.peakoil.com/

[Mudbass]

Start liking it. You think this is new? I was working in a gas station in 1971 when pump prices hit 44 cents a gallon and people were screaming bloody murder. Just like today, people were demanding the government do something about the outrageous price of gas. They wanted investigations and comittees. They wanted heads to roll.

34 years from now you'll look back nostalgically on the good old days when gas was just $3 a gallon.

[namlssboy]

Here's what we do. Use the technology that the government has to build a battery like the ones on sattelites and in space exploration. Refine the technology to make it cheap and safe enough to produce them en masse. Then use that same technology to build an electric car or hybrid that has a higher efficiency of power retention than we have now. Finally, build hydropower plants and wind generator plants to harness clean, renewable energy. Yeah, thats a huge capital investment, but it'll all pan out. And to get on my soap box, if our government spends more money on energy concerns, demographic concerns, and...shall I say it... streamlining the giant fat pig of a government we have now rather than creating wars maybe we'd get somewhere! Just my opinion...

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by isaac42 Not necessarily. Just because we always have doesn't mean we always will. There have been other situations where resources have been depleted, and no new way was found. Those societies simply ceased to exist. Easter Island springs immediately to mind. They cut all their trees, and no new resource was found. Mesopotamia was once one of the most fertile places on Earth, but long-term irrigation ruined the soil, and now it's mostly desert. We know it as Iraq. On the other hand, ours was once a coal-based society. We transformed, not because we ran out of coal, but because we found something better, oil. We can go back to that, but it won't be easy. One more thing: we aren't going to run out of oil. there will be oil as long as anyone here is alive, and well beyond. That doesn't mean, though, that there will be enough oil. Demand will continue to increase, and the supply will not increase to match it. That might happen in fifty years, or it might already have happened. You can find a lot more detail online, at sites like http://www.oilcrisis.com/ and http://www.peakoil.com/

You have your pessimism and I will carry on with my optimism.

 

Two points of view.

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by namlssboy Here's what we do. Use the technology that the government has to build a battery like the ones on sattelites and in space exploration. Refine the technology to make it cheap and safe enough to produce them en masse. Then use that same technology to build an electric car or hybrid that has a higher efficiency of power retention than we have now. Finally, build hydropower plants and wind generator plants to harness clean, renewable energy. Yeah, thats a huge capital investment, but it'll all pan out. And to get on my soap box, if our government spends more money on energy concerns, demographic concerns, and...shall I say it... streamlining the giant fat pig of a government we have now rather than creating wars maybe we'd get somewhere! Just my opinion...

At this point in time this idea is not realistic.

 

The space ships run on and has much lower power demands than does a motor vehicle. Solar panels work well up there but not as well down here, at least for motor vehicles. Also there would be a large weight problem on the planet whereas it isn't a problem in outer space.

[isaac42]

Originally posted by namlssboy Here's what we do. Use the technology that the government has to build a battery like the ones on sattelites and in space exploration. Refine the technology to make it cheap and safe enough to produce them en masse. Then use that same technology to build an electric car or hybrid that has a higher efficiency of power retention than we have now. Finally, build hydropower plants and wind generator plants to harness clean, renewable energy. Yeah, thats a huge capital investment, but it'll all pan out. And to get on my soap box, if our government spends more money on energy concerns, demographic concerns, and...shall I say it... streamlining the giant fat pig of a government we have now rather than creating wars maybe we'd get somewhere! Just my opinion...

Might work. Might not. No way to be sure in advance. That's the thing about research. If you knew the answer ahead of time, you wouldn't need to do the research.

[namlssboy]

Solar panels on cars are a joke, I'm talking about generators run by hydroelectric and wind power. Then storing that energy in a high capacity battery which will run a motor with low power consumption. Hawkhuff, is your glass half empty?