Members zachoff Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by Emprov Yep. We have a nasty habit of thinking much more highly of ourselves than we should. Lose the exlusivity and self [sectual] importance and we'll be a lot better off. Agreed.
Members rx jr. Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by bassguy yea...so i was watching this show on the discovery channel on noahs arch, and is this suposed to happen after jesus was born or after? i have never read the bible, and come from a fairly atheist christian family... yes atheist christian as in my parents are christian but not die hards... inform me atheist christian.... that's going on my "best oxymorons ever" list.
Members NeonVomit Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 I agree with most of what Jesus said. Pity most 'Christians' tend to totally forget what Jesus himself was saying and listen to the idiot preachers on TV saying that gay people will go to hell, send me money. Or whatever.
Members Perfessor Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by Thunderbroom It's stuff like this that I just can't get past. I'm supposed to believe a guy lived to be 600+ years old?!? Well, they just had something on the news this week about a longevity gene they have found. When they turned it off in mice they live over twice as long. They think there are more genes like this. Why is it so hard to believe a God that create all that is to be created can cause those he favored to live a long time? God is beyond time. Remember how Christ could enter roms unnoticed after he rose form the dead.
Members FreestyleIntruder Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by NeonVomit I agree with most of what Jesus said. Pity most 'Christians' tend to totally forget what Jesus himself was saying and listen to the idiot preachers on TV saying that gay people will go to hell, send me money. Or whatever. Yeah, except all that stuff about the meek inheriting the earth, terribly bad PR for the defense industry
Members Rippin' Robin Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by Perfessor Well, they just had something on the news this week about a longevity gene they have found. When they turned it off in mice they live over twice as long. They think there are more genes like this. Why is it so hard to believe a God that create all that is to be created can cause those he favored to live a long time? God is beyond time. Remember how Christ could enter roms unnoticed after he rose form the dead. If you believe in Christ, how can you acknowledge such scientific research?
Members Perfessor Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by bassguy yea...so i was watching this show on the discovery channel on noahs arch, and is this suposed to happen after jesus was born or after? i have never read the bible, and come from a fairly atheist christian family...yes atheist christian as in my parents are christian but not die hards...inform me The deal is if you read the bible from start to finish you will be changed person. Remember Jerry West the basketball star? He set out to disprove the bible and ended up writing a 1000 page book about his beliefs. This has happened many times, people start out to disprove it and end up believers. Also, you cannot have a personal faith. You can have a personal relationship with God and Christ and the Holy Spirit but not a personal faith. Jesus was constantly around people and we are supposed to be like him. That's why the most active, growing churches are the ones that have small groups that meet in people's houses as well as in church. "Cell groups" they're called by the non-denominational churches, "bands" as they were called by John Wesley are the small groups that meet and pray for each other. There is a biblical basis for these small groups and they were talked about by the apostle Paul. All the megachurches have this small people oriented approach. There are music groups and prayer groups and all kinds of activities going on. A growing church has life and is an uplifting, fun place to be. It becomes your "church home", i.e., a place to let your guard down and have fellowship.
Members DerekDRP Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by rikshaw DerekDRP? eh? what about me?
Members Perfessor Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by Rippin' Robin If you believe in Christ, how can you acknowledge such scientific research? Because we have brains. Medical science has been a vehicle for God to help his people. People say there are no miracles today. What about millions of people being saved and having their suffering alieviated by medicines, etc? There are concrete examples of God's presence all around. As far as the science of evolution is concerned, there are gaps a mile wide that philisophical science thinking has produces that has to be constantly reworked for even the proponants to believe. There are many aspects of science that are benificial and there are many aspects that are not benificial to mankind. Everyone knows in his heart which is which if he would care to admit it. And what Christian belief has to offer is also the heart. Your heart has to change. People think they can get there by thinking. Wrong approach. Christian belief is of the heart. People think they can get there by force, reason, arguing, etc., but it's all about the heart. That's why it is correctly pointed out that televangelists are for the most part charlatans. It's because as Jesus said, "you'll know them by they're fruits". Even unbelievers know the real deal. How much better it is to believe and have this changed heart for yourself. To not have to muscle yourself through life. You'll be healthier for it, too.
Members bholder Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by gazman I did answer his question. Besides, look at the phrase. "atheist christian": A Christian who doesn't believe in God? How does that work exactly? I'd say he believes in the teachings of Jesus for the most part, regarding how to treat others and how to live, but doesn't believe in an overarching omnipotent god. Why is that a difficult concept?
Members mrcrow Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by bassguy yea...so i was watching this show on the discovery channel on noahs arch, and is this suposed to happen after jesus was born or after? i have never read the bible, and come from a fairly atheist christian family...yes atheist christian as in my parents are christian but not die hards...inform me noahs ark..happened at the second biblical beginning of the worldin the world many cultures have the flood narrative in their ancient history and beliefsa book on the subject is 'the legend' by david rohl...he is an archaeologist and makes a good case for the anti and post deluvian (before and after flood) periods jesus and chrisitanity is an offshoot of judaism which started around the end of the first century AD...anno domini...in the year of our lord dont let the bible confuse you ..its a hard task to read and interpret it in our terms today better be an atheist but follow jesus teaching than a theologian with his fingers in someone elses pie..if you get my meaning:)
Members tenyearsgone Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by Dark Slide Are we saying that it's not possible to be raised in a home that is both Christian and athiest?I mean, one can't be both at the same time... but each parent could be one or the other. Possibility but HIGHLY unlikely. Any Christian knows to not marry one who is "unequally yoked". In other words, you don't marry an unbeliever, period. I have yet to see the day that a Christian marrys an Atheist. It just doesn't happen.
Members mrcrow Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by tenyearsgone Possibility but HIGHLY unlikely. Any Christian knows to not marry one who is "unequally yoked". In other words, you don't marry an unbeliever, period. I have yet to see the day that a Christian marrys an Atheist. It just doesn't happen. atheism is relative to god.. you can believe in god...or a god and not be a christian...hence the world religion sect envelope a true christian ...if married to an unbeliever will pray for them and by their personal effectiveness be instrumental in any conversion... most christians were unbelievers when they were born... some take longer to be 'drawn' some do not.. i know fine people who i would not insult by insinuating they should become christian...unless they feel the need... god meets our needs...that is the christian ethic.. i find he meets peoples needs irrespective of whether they believe...this leads me to think that god is all he is supposed to be..full of grace and mercy.. he doesnt exist because of any goody goody group, concensus of opinion, or majority vote.. and has done before we were..
Members Mudbass Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 You should read the Bible, it's pretty interesting...well, once you get through the Book of Genesis anyway (all those "begats" put me to sleep). There's stuff in there that'll have you really scratching your head.
Members mrcrow Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by Mudbass You should read the Bible, it's pretty interesting...well, once you get through the Book of Genesis anyway (all those "begats" put me to sleep). There's stuff in there that'll have you really scratching your head. my advice is to read the peterson 'message' paraphrase...the old standard versions are pure hack to get through...and dont really give a true judao-western culture picture...we just arent mentally geared up for the cultural shibboleths of a 5000 year old national heritage....better we get a handle on practical life tools for today looking to tomorrow..so the paraphrase filters and smooth the incompatibility of the ancient word to the modern idiom...faith will be transcendent in any process:love:
Members PrestiaRules Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by King Kashue 1 minute rundown of Old Testament & New Testament Narrative (and beyond): Biblical account: Noah built the Ark 1656 years after Adam & Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden... Noah was 500 when he had his sons, and lived to 950, 350 of which were postdeluvian, which means he was 600 when he built the Ark... 292 years after the Flood, Abram was born. At the age of 75 Abram departed from his homeland with his wife and his nephew Lot. Abram will eventually be renamed Abraham (Abram meaning 'exalted father' and Abraham meaning 'father of a multitude') and he will have a son Issac, who will have a son Jacob, who will have 13 sons, 12 after whom the tribes of Israel were named and descended, and Joseph (of technicolor dreamcoat fame ). Joseph will lead his family into Egypt, where he has become and influential individual. Jacob's descendants will become the Hebrew people and the nation of Isreal (Jacob having been renamed Israel after wrestling with God, the name meaning "he who contends with God")... Now we begin Independently verifiable history: Sometime around 1400 BCE, the Hebrews spend a roughly 200 year period in Egypt, eventually leaving and settling in Caanan. They will eventually take control of most (but not all) of the land, and will found a kingdom. After a period of unification under the kings Saul, David, and Solomon, the kingdom will split into a Southern Kingdom made up of the tribes of Judah and Benjamin (and lead by the house of David) and a Northern Kingdom made up of the remaining 10 tribes. In 722 BCE the Assyrian Empire will sweep south and conquer the Northern Kingdom and remove the population to be resettled elsewhere in the empire. In 586, the Neo-Babylonian empire will put an end to the Southern Kingdom, removing the population to be resettled elsewhere. In 539 BCE, the Acheamenid Persians will conquer the Babylonians, and their King, Cyrus the Great, will issue a decree returning all captive peoples (including the Jews) to their homelands. After this point, there is no independent Jewish State, the Kingdom being under Persian rule until 332BC, when Alexander of Macedon will conquer the area, then under the Ptolematic Kings of Aegypt from 305 until 198 when the Selucid Kings will take control of the area. The Jews will achieve semi-autonomy under the Hasmonean dynasty from 140-37, but are under varying degrees of control from Ptolemaic Egypt and Rome during this period. In 37 BC Herod the Great will become King of Judea, but is not a Jew and is closely tied with the Romans. The state is subject to Roman law and control, though not officially part of the Roman empire. In Around 6-4 BC, Jesus is born...no he wasn't born in 0, since there was no zero, but since Herod dies in 4, we have to place his birth before that...The dating system we use today was an innovation of centuries later and basically they messed the sero point up... 30ish AD, Christ is crucified (and according to the Bible) is risen from the dead. 64 Nero burns the center of Rome, first major persecution of Christians begins. Both Paul and Peter are executed in Rome in 67. From 66-70 the Jews in Judea revolt against the Romans. They are finally put down in 70 by the general (and later emperor) Titus, who loots the province and destroys the temple. Judea becomes a Roman province, renamed 'Palestine' in 135AD. The region will be held by the Eastern Roman Empire until 638 when it is lost to the Islamic Armies along with Antioch of Syria. The region is captured by European armies during the first Crusade, Jerusalem itself being captured in 1099, it will remain in Crusader hands until 1187 when it will fall to Saladin after the disaster at Hattin. The Egyptian Ayyubides will control the region until 1260 when they are overthrown by the Mamluks. The Ottoman Turks will conquer the Mamluks in 1516-17 and will control the region until the end of World War I, 400 years later. The United Kingdom will control the region until after WWII, when in 1948 they constitute the modern State of Israel, the first fully autonomous Jewish State in the region since 539 BC... this is why I come to you with history/translation related questions...and history was my minor in university...makes me feel shame.... MIJ basses rule!
Members PrestiaRules Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by NeonVomit I agree with most of what Jesus said. Pity most 'Christians' tend to totally forget what Jesus himself was saying and listen to the idiot preachers on TV saying that gay people will go to hell, send me money. Or whatever. isn't there a famous ghandi/gandhi quote about this...something to the extent of I love Christ just not Christians...essentially saying the message of Christ is great ...it is all the messengers since then who have mucked it up....
Members mrcrow Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by PrestiaRules isn't there a famous ghandi/gandhi quote about this...something to the extent of I love Christ just not Christians...essentially saying the message of Christ is great ...it is all the messengers since then who have mucked it up.... I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. Mohandas Gandhi
Members niomosy Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by Perfessor The deal is if you read the bible from start to finish you will be changed person. Remember Jerry West the basketball star? He set out to disprove the bible and ended up writing a 1000 page book about his beliefs. This has happened many times, people start out to disprove it and end up believers. It doesn't always happen
Members HORSE Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by mrcrow my advice is to read the peterson 'message' paraphrase... +1 The Message is great for getting the meat and potatoes aspects of the Bible across in an easy to understand, modern language. It's not the best for scholarly studies, but its definitely an easier read than any direct translations out there.
Members RobRoy Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by bassguy yea...so i was watching this show on the discovery channel on noahs arch, and is this suposed to happen after jesus was born or after? i have never read the bible, and come from a fairly atheist christian family...yes atheist christian as in my parents are christian but not die hards...inform me Read "Mere Christianity" By C. S. Lewis to get a good understanding of how Christianity fits into Life, the Universe, and Everything. The Bible is divided into two parts - 1) the revelation of God and his law in the Old testament; 2) The revelation of Gods plan for eternal salvation through the Death and Resurrection of Jesus the Christ - the New Testament. Regarding the events, the flood happens in the first book of the Old Testament, thousands of years before the birth of Christ.
Members RobRoy Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by mrcrow I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. Mohandas Gandhi We are. So true. Then again, if we were truly like Him, we wouldn't need Him.
Members cthulhu0 Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 maybe the word the OP was looking for was "agnostic", or perhaps "lapsed".
Members tom_s252 Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by Thunderbroom It's stuff like this that I just can't get past. I'm supposed to believe a guy lived to be 600+ years old?!? It is widely accepted, at least amongst European scholars, that the Ark is a myth, ie a story set before time to answer questions contemporary to the author(s). The problem comes when this is taught at the same level as the Gospels. When someone decides to dismiss Noah, they decide that it's all a load of rubbish instead of distinguishing between myth and narrative.
Members niomosy Posted November 4, 2005 Members Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by tom_s252 It is widely accepted, at least amongst European scholars, that the Ark is a myth, ie a story set before time to answer questions contemporary to the author(s).The problem comes when this is taught at the same level as the Gospels. When someone decides to dismiss Noah, they decide that it's all a load of rubbish instead of distinguishing between myth and narrative. Unfortunately, you've got churches in the U.S., like the one my wife takes me to, claiming that the ark is real. The guys research was quite obviously flawed and biased but that's not going to stop the church masses from cheering about the data. I wouldn't say that the entire bible is rubbish. There's some good stories with good morals in there. There's even some history in there as well. The problem becomes seperating truth from fiction as one side has it in their best interest that everything be considered true.
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