WTF - Broad Optimism in Iraq....

[Crescent Seven]

Originally posted by T. Alan Smith Oh, and we're not supposed to know of anything good happening over in Iraq. Don't you people know that!?

 

 

Oh {censored}!

Man, I'm sorry, bikehorn. I didn't realize that you were just defending the status quo. My most sincere apologies.

C7

[beam]

It constantly amazes me that virtually no one on here is capable of having a discussion that doesn't erode into sarcasm, inuendo, and sometimes blatant name calling.

I'm glad none of us are in charge, {censored}..

[bikehorn]

Originally posted by Crescent Seven Oh {censored}! Man, I'm sorry, bikehorn. I didn't realize that you were just defending the status quo. My most sincere apologies. C7

 

 

i'm glad i can support the war for my own reasons and still be lumped in as being anti-iraq-war. really.

[Crescent Seven]

Originally posted by bikehorn i'm glad i can support the war for my own reasons and still be lumped in as being anti-iraq-war. really.

 

 

Then do us all a favor and speak to your reasons for supporting the war, instead of attacking somebody else's reasons, which is exactly what you did.

To clear something up, would you have come after me if I had posted the same thing? This question goes out to bbl as well. Or was it something against chris-dax?

I don't want there to be beef here, I just called it like I saw it, and it didn't take but maybe 5 posts for this thread to go to "you're a troll" and "shut the {censored} up." Not one of you guys refuted any of the info in the initial post.

C7

[bassman1956]

The emails, blogs, and pages I've seen from Vets that are over there, both enlisted and officers, are far more along the lines of optimism of the natives is rampant, WMD do exist except when you get technical with the name and what qualifies as WMD, and that the people in general are very positive about what the war has done to their country. Stories of a bigger line outside enrollment points for police, security, voting any day after car bombers or suicide mamers, are common stories. Many people feel they are far better off. But, our media can only criticise, and doesn't feel it's doing it's job unless it's castrating people.

I AM TOTALLY SUPRISED THE TESTICALLY CHALLENGED AMERICAN MEDIA WOULD EVER LET SUCH A POSITIVE VIEW BE REPRODUCED IN THEIR OWN MEDIA!

[bikehorn]

Originally posted by Crescent Seven Then do us all a favor and speak to your reasons for supporting the war, instead of attacking somebody else's reasons, which is exactly what you did.

it has about nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with someone's politics here. the point is, as proven here, that they accomplish just about nothing and so to me, don't have much place on a forum where people otherwise get along just fine.

i don't care about WMDs. i knew they'd never find any worth noting before anyone went in and i don't love Bush either...which is not to say that i'd go hug John Kerry either if i was an american voter. I also don't give a {censored} about "the war on terror" as it is being portrayed. sure, go after terrorists...just don't make a holy war out of it. they ruin life for everyone and give middle easterners and muslims a bad name. i can't count how many times i've been pulled aside and "talked to" or been made to sit around at airports or border crossings for hours just because i have a muslim name and ancestral persian features. I'm 19 year old male recognised as a muslim. of course i'm a terrorist, right? . in the end they let me go because i'm never the Sajjad Ali Syed who planned a bombing, hijacking, or other such miserable waste of energy that's on their wanted list. In case nobody guessed, i'm just slightly bitter about the fact that i can suddenly be considered an "outsider", a "foreigner", a "threat to security" and a target for discrimination and state-sanctioned racism for something i have fully nothing to do with across the world - after being born a Canadian citizen and living here my whole life. does anyone call the Irish terrorists just because of the IRA? i'll go with "no".

my opinion was it was just about goddamn time someone got up and removed Saddam and his crew for good. should have finished the job the first time, but better late than never. there were simply too many reasons sitting around would have been unjustified. I'm not really worried about "oil" either because i knew enough about how the Saudi Royal Family operated long before Michael Moore made a publicity stunt out of it.

i hope you're happy now.

[Crescent Seven]

Originally posted by bassman1956 The emails, blogs, and pages I've seen from Vets that are over there, both enlisted and officers, are far more along the lines of optimism of the natives is rampant, WMD do exist except when you get technical with the name and what qualifies as WMD, and that the people in general are very positive about what the war has done to their country. Stories of a bigger line outside enrollment points for police, security, voting any day after car bombers or suicide mamers, are common stories. Many people feel they are far better off. But, our media can only criticise, and doesn't feel it's doing it's job unless it's castrating people. I AM TOTALLY SUPRISED THE TESTICALLY CHALLENGED AMERICAN MEDIA WOULD EVER LET SUCH A POSITIVE VIEW BE REPRODUCED IN THEIR OWN MEDIA!

 

 

I think the Wall Street Journal realizes that you have to throw reality a bone every once in a while to keep people from writing you off.

The guys I've spoken with returning don't try to paint a rosy picture of things, but they point out that Iraq is an educated country that has been waiting to break out of oppression and lead themselves, and that the biggest obstacle to progress hasn't been the terrorists, it's the religious in-fighting among Muslims. Schools are being built, police forces are being trained, and infrastructure is being restored. City councils have been in session for 2 years now, and each election draws more voters out than the last.

My buddy was an MP in Baghdad, and he says that when he got there, the men would stand on the corner and were unwilling to look for jobs. They would say "If Allah wills it, I will find a job." As conditions improved, and jobs were created, the groups of men grew smaller, and as their friends found work, they would follow suit. I guess Allah willed it...

Contractors initially had to beg young Iraqi men to come to work; when my friend left, the men were lining up to work and to join the police forces.

We're making progress in Iraq, but some people are still so messed up over reasons for going in, Saddam's connection to al Qaida, etc., that they simply don't care and don't want to know about it. You can think Bush lied all you want, I don't care and I won't until you prove it, which nobody has. But it's dishonest to deny that positive change is happening in Iraq and that it will have a positive effect on the war on terror.

C7

[cthulhu0]

Originally posted by bbl That's not "interesting." That's good news (well, if you can count poll results as "news"). It's good to know all the positive things happening in Iraq. What's "interesting" to me is that you didn't paste the entire article. For instance, you excluded this piece: Negatives Other views, moreover, are more negative: Fewer than half, 46 percent, say the country is better off now than it was before the war. And half of Iraqis now say it was wrong for U.S.-led forces to invade in spring 2003, up from 39 percent in 2004. The number of Iraqis who say things are going well in their country overall is just 44 percent, far fewer than the 71 percent who say their own lives are going well. Fifty-two percent instead say the country is doing badly. There's other evidence of the United States' increasing unpopularity: Two-thirds now oppose the presence of U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq, 14 points higher than in February 2004. Nearly six in 10 disapprove of how the United States has operated in Iraq since the war, and most of them disapprove strongly. And nearly half of Iraqis would like to see U.S. forces leave soon. Specifically, 26 percent of Iraqis say U.S. and other coalition forces should "leave now" and another 19 percent say they should go after the government chosen in this week's election takes office; that adds to 45 percent. Roughly the other half says coalition forces should remain until security is restored (31 percent), until Iraqi security forces can operate independently (16 percent), or longer (5 percent). Did you run out of space, or did you only include the results of that poll that fit your agenda?

 

 

c7, the above was why i called c-d a troll.

 

and as i've said, why are we there? where are these wmd that pose an immenent threat to the us? where was the connection between saddam and al 'quida? how has this stopped terrorism?

 

if you are going to argue for humanitarian causes, why are iraqi's better off than new orleans residents? how about the sudan? angola? why haven;t we invaded there?

 

the whole argument here is that there was no reason to go in, and theres no reason to stay, no matter the positive spin.

[NeonVomit]

*does 180 degree turn out of thread*

[takeout]

This thread is gay. Like, "can't get married in Kansas" gay.

[Thumper]

Originally posted by beam It constantly amazes me that virtually no one on here is capable of having a discussion that doesn't erode into sarcasm, inuendo, and sometimes blatant name calling. I'm glad none of us are in charge, {censored}..

It does seem difficult to voice an opinion without getting bashed lately, whether HCBF or in any public forum.

Here's my take---have the PsyOPs guys broadcast Lug's mp3s. That'll bring the insurgents to their knees

[greenshag]

C-D isn't a troll, sure he likes to stir the pot a bit with political threads, and sure, I don't always agree with his politics...but, he does post on-topic quite a bit, and I kinda like the guy myself.

[lug]

Originally posted by Thumper It does seem difficult to voice an opinion without getting bashed lately, whether HCBF or in any public forum. Here's my take---have the PsyOPs guys broadcast Lug's mp3s. That'll bring the insurgents to their knees

http://users3.ev1.net/~woodd/huntforcanadianbeer.mp3

Run terrorists.......run.

edit: I'd kill terrorists just like I killed this thread.

[bbl]

Originally posted by chris-dax you obviously are incable of making any kind of coherent response to the topic of the post.... my suggestion....move on.... you're boring....and apparently have no opinion other than "anyone who doesn't agree with my enlightend opinion is a troll" But other than "you suck" you have nothing....completely blank.... But just so I can be compeletly clear....you, bbl, are a dim bulb....you can't keep up.....you are an idiot..... try making some kind of intelligble statement about the post.... or just shut the {censored} up and piss off....c-d

I did make a very coherent response, which you haven't replied to.

You only pasted the poll results that fit your agenda. You excluded results of the poll that don't fit your agenda. Therefore, you're doing the same thing as the media you despise.

My suggestion to you... be prepared to be called on your trollish {censored}. Like the time you called out every Democrat as an "enemy of the USA" if they didn't publicly denounce Dennis Durbin's comments about Gitmo. No, that's not trollish.

Or your heartfelt message to the Armed Forces, which was obviously more a political statement against Kerry and Dean (that statement came first) and less a sincere "I love every one of you" (if it was sincere, you wouldn't have mentioned Kerry or Dean). I doubt you "love" the anti-Bush Armed Forces members as much as the pro-Bush members. I wonder why no Armed Service members or there supporters responded.

I didn't think "troll" was really a bad word around here. At least, not as bad as the words above you've used to describe me.

You can move on, too. I doubt you will.

[Crescent Seven]

Originally posted by cthulhu0 and as i've said, why are we there? where are these wmd that pose an immenent threat to the us? where was the connection between saddam and al 'quida? how has this stopped terrorism?

 

 

We're there because our Congress took a look at intelligence that was given to us by several international agencies that indicated the presence of WMD's in Iraq, and they voted nearly unanimously to go in. I can't tell you where the WMD's are, because you choose to define them differently than I do. The connection between Hussein and Al Qaeda has been found in the training camps he allowed to operate inside Iraq, and we're stopping terrorism by laying down as many violent Islamic fundamentalists as we can find, and allowing the rest of the disenfranchised youth in the Arab world to see that democracy can work and you can improve your own life and that of your family without blowing yourself up.

But I just wasted 3 minutes of my time, because these points have been made to you countless times, yet you keep asking the same questions over and over, because the answers don't suit you. I'll never say everything is perfect over there, but at least I don't spend my time trying to undermine progress while my friends are over there making change happen. Isn't that what you hippies are all about? Making the world a better place? You keep asking questions and trying to debase our efforts, we'll do the hard work for you.

C7

[RyCLB]

Rawk! I love these political threads. Incredibly entertaining. Just for {censored}s and giggles, I'll jump on C7's and Chris Dax's side, basically only because they're fellow Denverites.




There, I've formally thrown my hat into the political ring. Discuss.

[Crescent Seven]

Originally posted by RyCLB Rawk! I love these political threads. Incredibly entertaining. Just for {censored}s and giggles, I'll jump on C7's and Chris Dax's side, basically only because they're fellow Denverites. There, I've formally thrown my hat into the political ring. Discuss.

As long as you ain't frum Boulder, we cool.
Glad to see you're rooting for the home team.
C7

[chris-dax]

Originally posted by bbl I did make a very coherent response, which you haven't replied to. You only pasted the poll results that fit your agenda. You excluded results of the poll that don't fit your agenda. Therefore, you're doing the same thing as the media you despise.

bbl - the very first word in my opening post was a link to the entire article.... Pay attention...

[Crescent Seven]

Originally posted by chris-dax bbl - the very first word in my opening post was a link to the entire article.... Pay attention...

Really?
It linked me to a lesbian porn site.

Thanks a million, by the way.
C7

[Oddsock]

Originally posted by Crescent Seven Really? It linked me to a lesbian porn site. Thanks a million, by the way. C7

did you have to click it a certain way? I can't get it to work for me....

[rx jr.]

don't care this thread sucks politics blow i screw dogs bye.

[Craig Vecchione]

We've got oodles of personal attacks as usual. If you can't argue the POINT more than the PERSON, why not stay out of it?


Shame this forum isn't moderated.

[hawkhuff]

Originally posted by chris-dax Surprising levels of optimism prevail in Iraq with living conditions improved, security more a national worry than a local one, and expectations for the future high. Hmmmmm....very interesting....c-d

They are optimistic because we are surrendering.

[cthulhu0]

Originally posted by Crescent Seven We're there because our Congress took a look at intelligence that was given to us by several international agencies that indicated the presence of WMD's in Iraq, and they voted nearly unanimously to go in. I can't tell you where the WMD's are, because you choose to define them differently than I do. The connection between Hussein and Al Qaeda has been found in the training camps he allowed to operate inside Iraq, and we're stopping terrorism by laying down as many violent Islamic fundamentalists as we can find, and allowing the rest of the disenfranchised youth in the Arab world to see that democracy can work and you can improve your own life and that of your family without blowing yourself up. But I just wasted 3 minutes of my time, because these points have been made to you countless times, yet you keep asking the same questions over and over, because the answers don't suit you. I'll never say everything is perfect over there, but at least I don't spend my time trying to undermine progress while my friends are over there making change happen. Isn't that what you hippies are all about? Making the world a better place? You keep asking questions and trying to debase our efforts, we'll do the hard work for you. C7

 

first, not a hippie. civil libertarian. i believe that war can be necessary. but this one is not. this was an elective war botched from the beginning.

 

i define wmd as what they were sold to congress as: weapons that posed an imminent threat to the us. that mean icbms or similar. thats why we went. because saddam "possesed the means and want to strike the us". so far, mostly munitions sold to saddam by the us from 20 years ago, and expired chemical weapons. this is not a pick and choose situation.

 

al quaida connections:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10164478/

 

[JeffBass]

They didn't botch anything and you should quit swallowing the crap that John Kerry, Ted Kennedy and the mainstream press is trying to shove down our throats.