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Originally posted by Deville

Tablature is a crutch. I know a guy who can't play a single song all the way through without having a book open in front of him.

Learn theory and teach yourself any song you want to play by using your ears.

 

I barely know any theory and I learn most songs by ear anyway. I just know my way around the fingerboard fairly well. I mean, look at Billy Sheehan. He shreds on bass, but will openly admit he doesn't know {censored} about the theory behind the stuff he plays.

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Originally posted by Kid Vicious

I barely know any theory and I learn most songs by ear anyway. I just know my way around the fingerboard fairly well. I mean, look at Billy Sheehan. He shreds on bass, but will openly admit he doesn't know {censored} about the theory behind the stuff he plays.

 

Learning theory is not that hard, and it really speeds up the learning process in terms of understanding how and why it works, instead just going "Umm, yeah I play it like this". Also, Ignorance to theory doesn't earn you much respect around other players.

I'm not saying you have to learn theory to become a good player, but it sure helps to have a clear understanding of the scientific side of the art.

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Originally posted by Deville

Learning theory is not that hard, and it really speeds up the learning process in terms of understanding
how
and
why
it works, instead just going "Umm, yeah I play it like this". Also, Ignorance to theory doesn't earn you much respect around other players.

I'm not saying you have to learn theory to become a good player, but it sure helps to have a clear understanding of the scientific side of the art.

 

All I said was that you don't need to learn theory to learn songs by ear. Learning theory is great, but like you said, it's not a prerequisite for good playing. And as far as theory snobs that look down on those with less knowledge of theory than them, I wouldn't suggest bothering with those people anyway.

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Originally posted by Kid Vicious

All I said was that you don't need to learn theory to learn songs by ear. Learning theory is great, but like you said, it's not a prerequisite for good playing.

 

I agree with this to an extent....yes, a person can go through life as an awesome "ear player". However you will be surprised how much faster your "ear" playing/learning will be if you know theory. Knowing theory: understanding chord construction, knowing the diatonic modes, understanding the cycle of IVs, the cycle of Vs, knowing how a ii-V-I operates will all aid the speed of the ear-learning process...its like the difference between dial-up and DSL....... Just $.02

 

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Originally posted by DevilRaysFan

I agree with this to an extent....yes, a person can go through life as an awesome "ear player". However you will be surprised how much faster your "ear" playing/learning will be if you know theory. Knowing theory: understanding chord construction, knowing the diatonic modes, understanding the cycle of IVs, the cycle of Vs, knowing how a ii-V-I operates will all aid the speed of the ear-learning process...its like the difference between dial-up and DSL....... Just $.02

 

+1

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Originally posted by DevilRaysFan

I agree with this to an extent....yes, a person can go through life as an awesome "ear player". However you will be surprised how much faster your "ear" playing/learning will be if you know theory. Knowing theory: understanding chord construction, knowing the diatonic modes, understanding the cycle of IVs, the cycle of Vs, knowing how a ii-V-I operates will all aid the speed of the ear-learning process...its like the difference between dial-up and DSL....... Just $.02

 

 

Agreed on all counts...

 

 

 

- georgestrings

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Originally posted by Kid Vicious

And as far as theory snobs that look down on those with less knowledge of theory than them, I wouldn't suggest bothering with those people anyway.

 

It's not about being a snob, Kid-V. It's about taking your art seriously. If somebody says they gonna start a blues jam in E from the 5, you need to know what they're talking about. What's your first note?

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Originally posted by Kid Vicious

...And as far as theory snobs that look down on those with less knowledge of theory than them, I wouldn't suggest bothering with those people anyway.

 

personally, i dont "look down on" anyone im collaborating with musically. its just annoying to actual sit down and chart out your whole song, bring it in and then have to tab it all out for some guy, even tho youre really baked :mad:

 

:)

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Originally posted by Deville

It's not about being a snob, Kid-V. It's about taking your art seriously. If somebody says they gonna start a blues jam in E from the 5, you need to know what they're talking about. What's your first note?

 

 

I would, of course, start on B.

 

 

Deville and I just communicated musically extremely fast and simple. Like I said above: just like DSL :D

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Originally posted by DevilRaysFan

I would, of course, start on B.



Deville and I just communicated musically extremely fast and simple. Like I said above: just like DSL
:D

 

Outstanding! See how well theory can prepare you for working with new musicians?

 

There are, as have been pointed out above, other options... but the B is the obvious choice for a typical blues jam with a new band. Double stops and chords with the leading tone and maybe a high A would sound nice, too.

 

If you don't know what this stuff means, a little theory would do you some good. Some basic theory and the Nashville Numbering System are all you really need to get started.

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Originally posted by Deville

It's not about being a snob, Kid-V. It's about taking your art seriously. If somebody says they gonna start a blues jam in E from the 5, you need to know what they're talking about. What's your first note?

 

Are you talking about the fifth scale degree of E major? Wouldn't that be a B? Somebody was also talking about the leading tone (the seventh scale degree), which would be a D. Also, if doing a jam in E major, I know the major chord structure is I ii iii IV V vi viiDim I.

 

However, I'm confident that I could bs my way through most jams by listening to the chord progression for about a bar (of course, I'm not talking about Giant Steps or anything). After all, it would take me a bit to figure out where the B is on the neck, so by the time I've got my first note, they're 5 bars in. Alternatively, I could use the intuition I have for what the notes are for different frets and just improvise.

 

EDIT: And what I meant by the "theory snobs" comment was that I don't really care if someone doesn't respect me as a bassist, so long as they're not one of my bass heroes. Playing bass is not my career. I can totally understand other people, who play bass for a living, learning as much theory as humanly possible. As far as my bass playing goes, I'm pretty much just dicking around, and apparently I'm fairly good at doing so . :D

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Originally posted by Kid Vicious

Are you talking about the fifth scale degree of E major? Wouldn't that be a B? Somebody was also talking about the leading tone (the seventh scale degree), which would be a D. Also, if doing a jam in E major, I know the major chord structure is I ii iii IV V vi viiDim I.


However, I'm confident that I could bs my way through most jams by listening to the chord progression for about a bar. After all, it would take me a bit to figure out where the B is on the neck, so by the time I've got my first note, they're 5 bars in. Alternatively, I could use the intuition I have for what the notes are for different frets and just improvise.

 

ROFL - I'm very confused....You gave the impression that you didn't either know it, or didn't care about knowing it when actually you have a good grasp of it. Plus, you are also saying you know how to read a 'telegraph' from other musicians for upcoming chord changes. Still, the application would prevent you from waiting "5 bars in" to find it. Cheers

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Originally posted by DevilRaysFan

ROFL - I'm very confused....You gave the impression that you didn't either know it, or didn't care about knowing it when actually you have a good grasp of it. Plus, you are also saying you know how to read a 'telegraph' from other musicians for upcoming chord changes. Still, the application would prevent you from waiting "5 bars in" to find it. Cheers

 

Oh, I've got a grasp of the theory I've learned this semester (I'm very much interested in theory). I just don't have quite enough drive to translate it all to bass. All I really want to know about bass theory is all the bass scales and places to play them on the neck (so I can do crazy bass fills).

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Originally posted by hi.flyer

D#
:mad:

oh {censored} im a theory snob now
:cry:

:p:D

 

I'm willing to bet that, in a blues jam, an E chord would be a dominant 7 chord, not a major 7 chord in which D would be correct :p :p :D...although Deville originally said to start on the 5 which would, more than likely ( and diatonically correct) a B7, making the inital hi "A" you said a possibility :p

 

 

.......... The funny thing is, I use this stuff as a skeleton --- I try to think froma "vocal point of view" and just sing whats in my heart and not worry about all the formulas :p

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Originally posted by DevilRaysFan

I'm willing to bet that, in a blues jam, an E chord would be a dominant 7 chord, not a major 7 chord in which D would be correct
:p
:p
:D
...although Deville originally said to start on the 5 which would, more than likely ( and diatonically correct) a B7, making the inital hi "A" you said a possibility
:p


.......... The funny thing is, I use this stuff as a skeleton --- I try to think froma "vocal point of view" and just sing whats in my heart and not worry about all the formulas
:p

 

argh! ive been out-theory-snobbed!! :mad:

 

:D

 

you are of course absolutely right... :o

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