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All this talk about "Loud enough"?


TN.Frank

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As long as an amp has a DI out for a PA(and if you've got a PA to play thru.) does it really matter how Loud your amp is? I mean, my Ashdown at 7 really cranks, at least well enough for practice and as long as I hook into the PA I'd be plenty loud, right? I thought I noticed a trend a while back for groups to go with smaller amps and mike/hook into the PA's to get the volume. What are your thoughts on this. I mean I'd really love 300+ watts into a 4x10" but if I can get by with my 100 watt 1x15" and just mike it or hook into the PA with the DI output shouldn't that be good enough too.

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If you're going through the PA, and your amp is loud enough to hear yourself on stage, then you should be good to go IMO. Assuming your amp has a quality XLR output of course...

 

There are some smaller venues where my band has done our own sound, and my amp has to fill the room in those cases.

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I can see how if there were no PA you'd Have to have a loud enough amp, but today, in most decent clubs won't they generally have a PA set up of some kind?

Also, I think how efficent your speakers are plays a big roll in how Loud you'll be, even more so then the amount of watts you're cranking into your set-up.

Watts are logrimithic so that 1 watt is X and to get to Y you have to multiply it by 10 so 10 watts would be the next louder step, To go to Z you have to have 100 watts and to be louder you'd need 1000 watts, ect. So really, between a 100 watt amp and a 200 watt amp is there really That much difference?

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I can see how if there were no PA you'd Have to have a loud enough amp, but today, in most decent clubs won't they generally have a PA set up of some kind?

 

 

Most of the venues I'm currently playing do NOT provide a PA. We usually hire it out. There are a few venues that are a bit tougher to get into that do provide sound.

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I can see how if there were no PA you'd Have to have a loud enough amp, but today, in most decent clubs won't they generally have a PA set up of some kind?

Also, I think how efficent your speakers are plays a big roll in how Loud you'll be, even more so then the amount of watts you're cranking into your set-up.

Watts are logrimithic so that 1 watt is X and to get to Y you have to multiply it by 10 so 10 watts would be the next louder step, To go to Z you have to have 100 watts and to be louder you'd need 1000 watts, ect. So really, between a 100 watt amp and a 200 watt amp is there really That much difference?

 

 

Whether clubs will have their own PA varies greatly on area. Around here, that's more the exception than the rule - there are a very few higher end venues that do, but most places won't, and bands are expected to have their own, so unless you're bringing your own PA that's big enough to support the whole band rather than just vocals, it matters.

 

Also, unless you have a good monitoring system, the amp needs to have enough oomph to hear yourself on stage - how much is enough depends greatly on your drummer and guitarist - I've played with plenty of both who think "louder is better" and have no control over their volume. I refuse to deal with that any more, which is one reason I'm not "playing out" these days.

 

Speaker efficiency is certainly a factor, but in general, not enough to really influence wattage you'll need. If you're playing with a loud drummer (which most rock/pop drummers are, in my opinion), there's a huge difference between 100w and 200w - 100w will be barely enough to hear yourself, 200w will be much better.

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Your amp should be loud enough to compete with the drums, period. Drums are inherently the loudest instrument on the stage. Vocals are the quietest. Everybody simply needs to match their volume to the drummer. If you playing small clubs, you'll need your rehearsal PA to run the vocals thru. If you run electronics, you'll need said PA for this as well.

Now, as you play bigger and bigger clubs, etc, you simply rent a bigger PA. You don't need bigger rigs as your stage volume stays the same. It's really that simple.

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Wow, you'd think that in a club where they had live bands they'd at least provide a PA system.
:freak:

 

Depends on the area and the competition, around here, most club owners are far too cheap, and don't really believe in the pulling power of live entertainment, so no way they're going to spend money on "band gear". Hell, most of them are too cheap to even pay the band decently - most places around here pay like crap, too. I got paid more per gig back in the 70s when I was a teenager than I would now gigging around here. Get a big enough name and draw, and things change, but then you'd generally only be playing venues that do have a PA (and you basically have to be touring somewhat to do that, because there aren't enough venues locally to play regularly, you basically have to travel).

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Wow, you'd think that in a club where they had live bands they'd at least provide a PA system.
:freak:

 

As convenient as that may seem, I'd rather rent.

We have a rent to own Yorkville dealer here. The owner is a past heavy gigger and an exquisite audio engineer. He treats bands VERY well.

Last time I rented from him was simply a 1x12 cab to run with my last rig(SWR 350 head & Goliath Jr.III cab).

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I have a few amps and cabs, (4-pro, v-6, gk800, 2 4x10's and 2 gs112's). I could produce plenty of stage volume, but I also have a PA with IEM monitoring. Last practice I skipped the amp and plugged straight into the monitor board, it worked great. Next gig, I am leaving my amp and cab in the truck as a back-up. If I buy anything else for signal processing, it will probably be a Kern pre that I will rack with my wireless in the monitor rack.

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The clubs with PA around here can handle acoustic/vocal acts. A full blow rock&roll show would require a lot more PA. Most bands cannot afford the size PA to cover a large club. They build a PA to carry the vocals and a little of the drums. The guitar and bass have to do their own work. A 5000-6000 watt PA is going to run $25,000 and require someone to driveit who know how to NOT blow it up. Anybody can run a powered mixer and two speakers on sticks over some subs.

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The clubs with PA around here can handle acoustic/vocal acts. A full blow rock&roll show would require a lot more PA. Most bands cannot afford the size PA to cover a large club. They build a PA to carry the vocals and a little of the drums. The guitar and bass have to do their own work. A 5000-6000 watt PA is going to run $25,000 and require someone to driveit who know how to
NOT
blow it up. Anybody can run a powered mixer and two speakers on sticks over some subs.

 

 

You highlight another related issue - lack of qualified soundmen. Even if the clubs have PAs, that doesn't help if you don't have competent people to run them. I've seen (and experienced) lots of shows ruined that way. (And if you can't depend on a good soundman, your amp volume is that much more important.)

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So would you say that a Soundman is just as much a part of the band as a drummer or bass player? I think a good soundman is important and so is a good light man. It's all part of "The Show", you can have a decent band and not have a good light show or have a crappy soundman that can make the entire band suck. At least that my opinion. What do ya'll think.

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So would you say that a Soundman is just as much a part of the band as a drummer or bass player? I think a good soundman is important and so is a good light man. It's all part of "The Show", you can have a decent band and not have a good light show or have a crappy soundman that can make the entire band suck. At least that my opinion. What do ya'll think.

 

+1

 

*******sounds bell*********

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!!!

 

As a soundman I get payed $200 a show in this area. Most bands cannot afford that kind of expense. Mind you, $200 is just for me and not for the rental of a PA.

 

The problem is bands have been burned by soundguys who suck. There are as many "soundguys" as "guitarists" who think they rock. Find a good one who will work with you. Listen to him and give him freedom to move. Be respectful because you do not know what he is dealing with and you cannot hear the house mix from the stage. If he has an attitude, ditch him and find someone you can work with.:blah:

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Wow, you'd think that in a club where they had live bands they'd at least provide a PA system.
:freak:

I used to play in clubs and the only thing they had was some ratty PA system for the DJ to mix thru but not anything that a band would want to play thru.

 

when I was gigging I furnished everything Pa Amps Off stage powered Mixer Board lights ect about 30k worth of gear and back in the 80's that was a lot of gear.and we put on one heck of a show:thu:

if you wanted to gig back when I was doing it you had better have your own gear in order towork a show I dont think that has changed.

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main thing i was asking for.. is just incase there is no PA... though we have our own that works for the practice room it probably wouldn't be enough for a proper gig

 

as long as you have a main out on your mixer you can hook up Power amps and add stage speakers.

 

stage speakers are a lot less expensive than amp cabs

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