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Suggestion on completion of my Rig...


Rootdogg

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Hey doOds!

 

I could use a few opinions on this. A few months ago I became involved in a heavy rock power trio project that is going extremely well. Think AIC meets TooL. Most everything is in drop D, and the singer sounds very Lane Staley. Twenty original songs already! When we feel that these songs are complete, tight, and automatic, we will take this show out, and we already have studio time scheduled for late summer.

 

Anyways, the style of our music and pending shows has turned my attention to upgrading my speakers. My rig is damn near completion. For the past few years I have been running my Ampeg SVT4 Pro bridged mono into a Peavey BW115 cab. I have had that cabinet since i was 16 (12 years) and I must say, even though it is a Peavey, it reproduces everything down to B quite well and has been extremely reliable. Here is my upgrade plan:

 

April 13th I will place my order for an Avatar B210 NEO. I use my clean sound with my time based effects frequently, and I have noticed a problem with the BW115 not being able to cut through the mix. It simply isn't bright enough to reproduce those shimmering high frequencies. The 210 NEO should take care of that. This one is a no brainer. The reviews are undeniable/ excellent and this seems like the best cab for the job, and what an awesome price!

 

Now, for the 15. I was thinking of replacing it with either one of two upgrades:

 

1. Ashdown ABM 115. The full size model has a deeper frequency range than the compact cabinets. I use a Stingray 5, so frequency range is always a big factor with cabinet selection. This is a $700 upgrade.

ABM115Cab.jpg

 

2. Replace the BW115 with a Mesa Boogie Powerhouse 600 15 speaker. This is a $300 upgrade, saving me $400 over option one. From what I have read, this speaker reproduces B better than any speaker on the market. The Mesa reputation is undeniable as well. My one concern is the performance of the speaker being placed into a cabinet that it was not designed for. The Mesa cabs are much smaller than my full size Peavey cab, so I am concerned that it might sound too "boomy" inside of it. I figure I can always solve this problem with some cabinet packing material and tighten things up if I need to.

 

http://mesa.stores.yahoo.net/po600158o.html

 

Either way, I will be doing this upgrade so I can bi-amp my SVT4 and split the low / high frequencies between the two cabinets and take full advantage of the amp's capabilities.

 

Opinions? If you guys have any other suggestions on great 15's that I have not considered I would love to hear them as well. Bottom line is:

 

I need something that can reproduce extremely low frequencies, and handle serious distortion on a somewhat regular basis. You can see what kind of signal chain / effects I use in my signature.

 

On a side note, I have just reserved a Geddy Jazz Bass which I should have paid off by late May, and my Turbo Rat goes out for Keeley mod on April 13th as well!!!!!

 

As always, thanks for the feedback. This forum and the great minds that troll it have been so important in shaping my setup!

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I emailed both Mesa and Avatar for details on frequency response for the Powerhouse 15 and NEO212. I cannot seem to find details on either.

 

Peavey BW - 30Hz to 3.5 kHz

Ashdown ABM 115 - 37Hz-2 kHz

 

The Peavey cycles lower than the Ashdown, but tops off at 3.5kHz.

I am very interested to see what the NEO212 and Mesa can cycle down to.

I would like to keep it around 30 Hz.

From what I can recall, E cycles at 41.2 Hz.

Does anyone know what frequency B is?

From what I can remember, it was in the 30-35 Hz range.

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If you actually want a cab that reproduces the fundamental of your B-string look at Acme. However, you are probably chasing a red herring. Any cabinet that reproduces the second harmonic of a given note is going to carry the vast majority of the musical information to the listener anyway. Knowing that, there are lots of cabinets that reproduce to or below 60 Hz and sound AMAZING with a low B.

 

Personally, I would keep your current Peavey or get a Acme Low B-2W for the low end. Not that there is anything wrong with your plan, but I would either (1) not spend money that I didn't need to or (2) buy the best performing reasonably priced sub on the market.

 

Low B is approximately 31 Hz.

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Ashdown says the ABM 115 goes down to 37 Hz, but they do not list whether that is -3, -6 or -10 dB. I'd bet my lunch money that it is -6 dB.

 

Where did you get the spec on the Peavey?

 

 

Don't get so wrapped up in specs that really don't mean much when you see that there is a real lack on honesty in the industry when it comes to ratings.

 

You'd be better served to find a way to audition potential cabs.

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The Low B-4W looks like an even more attractive alternative. Add another option to serious consideration.

 

 

I use a pair of Low B-2s running my full range signal and they get deep and loud. If you are going to be sending a distorted signal through them, you certainly don't want the tweeter and if you are sending a signal crossed over below 1kHz you don't need the midrange. With that in mind, the B-4W might be just what you need.

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Eh, I consider the Peavey 18 (or any for that matter), to be a prime example of "bigger isn't always better" when it comes to bass guitar gear. From reviews and friends I have heard they usually sound pretty sloppy, inaccurate. I would rather have a balls out 15 before an 18.

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Eh, I consider the Peavey 18 (or any for that matter), to be a prime example of "bigger isn't always better" when it comes to bass guitar gear. From reviews and friends I have heard they usually sound pretty sloppy, inaccurate. I would rather have a balls out 15 before an 18.

 

 

Point 1: In the size enclosures that are used for bass cabs, you are almost always better off with a 15" over an 18".

 

Separate point 2: I recently played an 18" for the first time in years. It responded well, but, as with all 18s, its off-axis dispersion sucked.

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In the size enclosures that are used for bass cabs, you are almost always better off with a 15" over an 18".


I recently played an 18" for the first time in years. It responded well, but, as with all 18s, its off-axis dispersion sucked.

 

 

Exactly. I hear that same sentiment echoed over and over again. Just not tight / precise enough.

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Eh, I consider the Peavey 18 (or any for that matter), to be a prime example of "bigger isn't always better" when it comes to bass guitar gear. From reviews and friends I have heard they usually sound pretty sloppy, inaccurate. I would rather have a balls out 15 before an 18.

 

 

 

Just out of curiousity, have you ever played one, or are you just going by what you've heard others say about them???

 

 

18" Black Widows don't seem to have the same tone drawbacks as most other 18s - if you ever get a chance, try one out - I think you'll be pleasantly surprised... I'm sure James Hart would agree with me on this, as a Peavey 1820 has become his go-to cab...

 

 

 

 

- georgestrings

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Georgestrings-

 

I have tried the GK 18 and it did sound kind of sloppy to me. They never seem to have the resonance or the push that a 15 can deliver. I have read so many reviews / opinions of the same. A few of my friends have also gone to 18 inch cabs, and they always seem to go back to a 15 or some other configuration. Its not that I think they all suck, its just personal pref comes into play on this one. I will just be avoiding an 18.

 

Bassman1956-

 

That is a lovely freakin' rig you have there. Well done. I will post mine when I upgrade my cabs. For now I will hold you over with my pedalboard haha!

 

Well thanks for the input fellas! Always appreciated. I am down to two options and I think I know which one I want to take.

 

1. Acme will be sending me some info on the Low B4W sometime during the next few days. I am leaning toward purchasing this cabinet due to the specifics of what it was designed for, which are the exact specs I have been looking for. This way I also will have my Peavey 15 on hand to bolster the stack in larger venues or as backup! I would definetly consider running my 210 for highs, the BW15 for full range, and the B4W for lows! WOW!

 

2. The budget option. Grab a MESA 15.

 

Option one will have much more flexibility and the wait should be well worth it.

 

Pedalboard.jpg

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1. Acme will be sending me some info on the Low B4W sometime during the next few days. I am leaning toward purchasing this cabinet due to the specifics of what it was designed for, which are the exact specs I have been looking for. This way I also will have my Peavey 15 on hand to bolster the stack in larger venues or as backup! I would definetly consider running my 210 for highs, the BW15 for full range, and the B4W for lows! WOW!


Pedalboard.jpg

 

First off... rereading you posts, you are assuming that the published specs on all you are looking at aren't embellished.

 

Second... to cut through in a heavy mix you need solid mids, not extended lows.

 

Third... Acme are the real deal spec wise, the sacrifice effecency for low end! Players either put extreme wattage into them to get volume (and regularly replace creased cones) or they add a bunch together.

 

I almost ordered a regular B2 and a sub B2 from Andy... but in all the owners I spoke with all said the same. They don't like (read: don't sound good) with distortion.

 

If the BW 1x15" Peavey is close to your needs... just get an old BW 2x15" and be done with it.

 

 

(oh and please don't judge all 18" drivers off the GK... that's a pretty {censored}ty 18")

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First off... rereading you posts, you are assuming that the published specs on all you are looking at aren't embellished.


Second... to cut through in a heavy mix you need solid mids, not extended lows.


Third... Acme are the real deal spec wise, the sacrifice effecency for low end! Players either put extreme wattage into them to get volume (and regularly replace creased cones) or they add a bunch together.


I almost ordered a regular B2 and a sub B2 from Andy... but in all the owners I spoke with all said the same. They don't like (read: don't sound good) with distortion.


If the BW 1x15" Peavey is close to your needs... just get an old BW 2x15" and be done with it.



(oh and please don't judge all 18" drivers off the GK... that's a pretty {censored}ty 18")

 

 

 

Agreed on all counts - there is no comparison between G-K's 18" and the 18" Black Widow - entirely different animal...

 

 

 

- georgestrings

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First off... rereading you posts, you are assuming that the published specs on all you are looking at aren't embellished.


Second... to cut through in a heavy mix you need solid mids, not extended lows.


Third... Acme are the real deal spec wise, the sacrifice effecency for low end! Players either put extreme wattage into them to get volume (and regularly replace creased cones) or they add a bunch together.


I almost ordered a regular B2 and a sub B2 from Andy... but in all the owners I spoke with all said the same. They don't like (read: don't sound good) with distortion.


If the BW 1x15" Peavey is close to your needs... just get an old BW 2x15" and be done with it.



(oh and please don't judge all 18" drivers off the GK... that's a pretty {censored}ty 18")

 

 

As far as published specs go, I just use them for raw guidelines. I am not a strict constructionalist when it comes to what "they" say their product can do. I was never one to believe everything I read.

 

I have also heard of the Acme setup that distorted sound does not work well with the standard models. The distortion crushes the mid driver and the tweeter. I have heard that the B-4W would handle it just fine.

 

My Avatar 210 is going to be used for the extended mids and highs. That is the problem I am running into right now. When I engage my clean sound with time based effects, I lose a lot of character in the mix. That was my intention with the addition of the 210, to get that presence back.

 

With these two things in mind, I think the Low B-4W / Avatar 210 NEO combo would be intense. Also, I always would have the BW 115 if I wanted to run a power amp and run that full range or something. That is sounding like an interesting setup.

 

Otherwise, the Mesa upgrade is still intriguing. Just the 15" speaker, placed into the Peavey cab.

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Agreed on all counts - there is no comparison between G-K's 18" and the 18" Black Widow - entirely different animal...




- georgestrings

 

 

 

Lol, yeah I have heard the GK18 is one of the worst one of the lot. Perhaps I will test the BW sometime soon.

 

BTW it is awesome to hear the BW speaker get some props. People are always so fast to diss Peavey just on the name. I did own a Peavey amp, and I must admit, that thing was a POS. However, the BW has always been an awesome speaker. I blew it once (due to insufficient amp power), a $60 recone job, and it was back in action! Only one repair in 12 years of ownership of that cab speaks volumes.

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