(x-post) Cindy Sheehan retires...

[Kindness]

Are you taunting?

 

No, I was seriously asking for him to contribute. I'm not trying to be an asshole.

 

By the way, I like your posts in this thread.

[oldivor]

 

Sorry, but those total strangers do not give a {censored} about her sacrifice. If they did they would at least empathize with her. She lost her child in what she believes was an unjust war. To act like she's a piece of {censored} for trying to keep other military families from having the same thing happen is complete crap. she is to be applauded IMO. She values her son's sacrifice, but wishes it wasnt for nothing...

 

 

{censored} that, she WAITED how long to bury him?

 

If she loved him so much why the wait? I'm wondering what her son would say about all of this.

[ryry215]

 

{censored} that, she WAITED how long to bury him? If she loved him so much why the wait? I'm wondering what her son would say about all of this.

 

 

Please explain how the length of time of his burial has anything to do with the argument.

[oldivor]

 

Please explain how the length of time of his burial has anything to do with the argument.

 

 

hahahahahaha

 

See what you want man.

[ryry215]

 

hahahahahaha See what you want man.

 

 

I'm really interested to hear the connection. Are you implying she didnt love her son? What's the underlying point of your anti-sheehan rant?

[oldivor]

 

I'm really interested to hear the connection. Are you implying she didnt love her son? What's the under lying point of your anti-sheehan rant?

 

 

If you really love someone you don't put off burying them. If my mother died, I won't go protesting her dead until AFTER I had buried her.

 

She used her son's death as a pedestal.

[ryry215]

 

If you really love someone you don't put off burying them. If my mother died, I won't go protesting her dead until AFTER I had buried her. She used her son's death as a pedestal.

 

 

I cant find any information about the amount of time she waited to bury him. Please link it, or I'll have to think it's not true. All the information I read says she started her activism on a national scale in 2005. Her son died in 2004. That's a full year, or at least a few months. You cannot speak for Cindy Sheehan or to her state of mind. All you see of her is the sensationalized version. Anyone that loses a child is heartbroken. She chose to speak out about it. To claim that she "put herself" on a pedestal can be argued as well. I never thought she was on any sort of pedestal. Only trying to find politicians that would do help her in her fight. People like her are the essence of democracy. Just like people on the right that use the system to fullfull their agendas. I dont understand the hatred for her. Now she quit. Congrats, the mother of a dead soldier has been defeated.

[oldivor]

I cant find any information about the amount of time she waited to bury him. Please link it, or I'll have to think it's not true. All the information I read says she started her activism on a national scale in 2005. Her son died in 2004. That's a full year, or at least a few months. You cannot speak for Cindy Sheehan or to her state of mind. All you see of her is the sensationalized version. Anyone that loses a child is heartbroken. She chose to speak out about it. To claim that she "put herself" on a pedestal can be argued as well. I never thought she was on any sort of pedestal. Only trying to find politicians that would do help her in her fight. People like her are the essence of democracy. Just like people on the right that use the system to fullfull their agendas. I dont understand the hatred for her. Now she quit. Congrats, the mother of a dead soldier has been defeated.

 

I can't help you can't use google. Look it up for yourself.

 

I never said what she said was good or bad, but it's how she got there, she basically used the death of her son.

[ryry215]

I can't help you can't use google. Look it up for yourself. I never said what she said was good or bad, but it's how she got there, she basically used the death of her son.

 

I used google. You can't post it. It's complete crap. Right wing hit piece propaganda...Classic.

 

If her son hadn't died, she would not have been in that position. Are you going to now discredit Candy Lightner, the woman that started MADD because she used her child's death to get noticed? What about John Walsh? He uses his son's story to reach out to others in the same situation. Countless other people, after having a tradegy, have used their position to reach out to and inform others. Sheehan is no different. Ask her if she'd rather have her son back or her 15 minutes of fame...Anyone doubt her answer?

[L-1329]

 

Sorry, but those total strangers do not give a {censored} about her sacrifice. If they did they would at least empathize with her. She lost her child in what she believes was an unjust war. To act like she's a piece of {censored} for trying to keep other military families from having the same thing happen is complete crap. she is to be applauded IMO. She values her son's sacrifice, but wishes it wasnt for nothing...

 

 

You know, the thing about war and combat is how complex it is. In her political view her son died and accomplished not one worthwhile thing in the process. She feels that everyone elses children over there won't either. Do you honestly believe that to be the case too? What would she think if in his service fighting an 'unjust' war, he was killed in the act of saving one or more of his squad mates? Would that also mean he died for nothing? I'm sure it would mean something to those soldiers and their families. The strangers mentioned value the service of all our fighting force, and don't base that value on the politics behind it. Mudbass has it completely correct that it is very sad she can find no value in his service, while so many strangers can see nothing but. This is not stating that she's acting 'like a piece of {censored}e', but commentating on how sad of a view that is. I'm sure he would have hoped his family would honor his service, and find pride in that without politics.

[oldivor]

I used google. You can't post it. It's complete crap. Right wing hit piece propaganda...Classic. If her son hadn't died, she would not have been in that position. Are you going to now discredit Candy Lightner, the woman that started MADD because she used her child's death to get noticed? What about John Walsh? He uses his son's story to reach out to others in the same situation. Countless other people, after having a tradegy, have used their position to reach out to and inform others. Sheehan is no different. Ask her if she'd rather have her son back or her 15 minutes of fame...Anyone doubt her answer?

 

Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it's not true, there was a thread at ebassist with a link. Trust me, I saw it. If you don't want to believe me that's fine.

 

Haha ok man, you have your way, she's a true American hero then.

[ryry215]

 

You know, the thing about war and combat is how complex it is. In her political view her son died and accomplished not one worthwhile thing in the process. She feels that everyone elses children over there won't either. Do you honestly believe that to be the case too? What would she think if in his service fighting an 'unjust' war, he was killed in the act of saving one or more of his squad mates? Would that also mean he died for nothing? I'm sure it would mean something to those soldiers and their families. The strangers mentioned value the service of all our fighting force, and don't base that value on the politics behind it. Mudbass has it completely correct that it is very sad she can find no value in his service, while so many strangers can see nothing but. This is not stating that she's acting 'like a piece of {censored}e', but commentating on how sad of a view that is. I'm sure he would have hoped his family would honor his service, and find pride in that without politics.

 

 

It's not that she does not honor his service. She thinks the war he died in was all about a lie. She feels like our government has turned it's back on the soldiers. She never said she was not proud of her son, only that she was not proud of the country and it's leaders that she believes did him and others a huge dis-service.

[ryry215]

Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it's not true, there was a thread at ebassist with a link. Trust me, I saw it. If you don't want to believe me that's fine. Haha ok man, you have your way, she's a true American hero then.

 

A link from what source? Hannity's forum?

[oldivor]

A link from what source? Hannity's forum?

 

 

You crack me up man.

 

Ever put down your liberal bias and think about it? It is really that hard to believe that some one opposite of the political playground MIGHT be right on something. And FYI IIRC it was someone without a right wight bias that posted it. Personally I don't give a {censored} enough to dig it up. Like I'm really going to change your opinion about it. Meh, I don't just care.

[L-1329]

 

It's not that she does not honor his service. She thinks the war he died in was all about a lie. She feels like our government has turned it's back on the soldiers. She never said she was not proud of her son, only that she was not proud of the country and it's leaders that she believes did him and others a huge dis-service.

 

 

So then, what is she basing those views on? Was she privy to all the intel, present when key decisions were being made, watching from the sit room as the war progresses? How does she conclude that this is a pointless, mis-lead, unjust war where the leaders are throwing their sons and daughters to the lions without an ounce of concern? Being so vocal and opposed to Bush and the administration is all well and good, but she took up the banner of rightous victim based on her political beliefs and nothing else. Where would she get the nerve to tell someone else who lost a son, who in their heart believed in the mission and his sacrifice, that he died for nothing? Did she ever even once consider the impact that would make on other grieving families? I highly doubt it. As I said war is a super complex situation, and there is no one right view for everyone. Protest away, but don't be suprised when others don't have the same views. Her views can be as hurtful to other families as her belief in her sons empty sacrifice is to her.

[ryry215]

You crack me up man. Ever put down your liberal bias and think about it? It is really that hard to believe that some one opposite of the political playground MIGHT be right on something. And FYI IIRC it was someone without a right wight bias that posted it. Personally I don't give a {censored} enough to dig it up. Like I'm really going to change your opinion about it. Meh, I don't just care.

 

I'm not a liberal. I'm a libertarian, and I'm supporting Ron Paul in the election. I just dont see where all the hatred of Sheehan comes from. Is it because she got the most coverage in the media? No, you won't change my mind, because even if you found it, it doesnt mean {censored}. Her son died, she tried to "avenge" that death in her mind. I'm not saying she's a hero, only that she doesnt deserve to be torn to shreds. I think it's also disgusting how both sides used her pobvious pain to further their own arguments.

[ryry215]

 

So then, what is she basing those views on? Was she privy to all the intel, present when key decisions were being made, watching from the sit room as the war progresses? How does she conclude that this is a pointless, mis-lead, unjust war where the leaders are throwing their sons and daughters to the lions without an ounce of concern? Being so vocal and opposed to Bush and the administration is all well and good, but she took up the banner of rightous victim based on her political beliefs and nothing else. Where would she get the nerve to tell someone else who lost a son, who in their heart believed in the mission and his sacrifice, that he died for nothing? Did she ever even once consider the impact that would make on other grieving families? I highly doubt it. As I said war is a super complex situation, and there is no one right view for everyone. Protest away, but don't be suprised when others don't have the same views. Her views can be as hurtful to other families as her belief in her sons empty sacrifice is to her.

 

 

Point taken. It is super complex. But I dont see the same kind of hatred for families of soldiers that have died that are for the war. No one questions their morals and motives. She was a grieving mother who's sorrow was spilled into the national headlines, partly by her doing and partly by others. I respect her for her dedication to her son.

[prosigna]

 

But I dont see the same kind of hatred for families of soldiers that have died that are for the war.

 

 

I am not sure "hatred" is a useful word to describe reaction to Sheehan. The "right wing" guys like Hannity or Limbaugh saw Sheehan for what she was - a puppet of Democrat politicians. I don't think she intended to be a puppet. I don't think she knew she was being used. She was a foolish idealist who thought she was making a difference.

 

You said she was the essence of democracy. I am sure she held a similar view. My view of democracy (far from an idealistic one) does not hold political "activists" in high regard. They have a big voice and zero responsibility for the consequences their viewpoint can have on others. They make noise and then go away.

 

When Jefferson, Adams, and Hamilton were sitting around during the Washington administration, they were discussing government structure. Adams and Jefferson commented how the British system - without the corruption - would be the best for of government. Hamilton blew them both away when he declared the British system - WITH THE CORRUPTION - was the best for of government. You see, corruption is the oil and grease that lubricates the parts of the political machine. Much like you cannot run your cars engine without oil. You cannot run our government - or any one else's - without the corruption "activists" speak out against.

 

Big Money, Big Oil, Big Government, Big War. It is what puts the Cinnamon Toast Crunch on my table this morning. You can hate it but you cannot have a rich country without it.

 

Well, you cannot have a poor country without it either. Move to a poor African country and watch the corruption and lack of justice there.