DAOTD: gun control edition

[Jugghaid]

I believe current gun laws are fine. However, if I needed a gun by my bed to "feel" safe, I'd either (1) move, (2) seek counseling, or (3) both. Everyone has that "well, you can't be passive, because I know this one guy who..." Yeah, I know someone who was hurt in a car accident. It won't prevent me from driving a car. And speaking of cars, using them as an analogy is poor because cars are designed to transport people and things, not to kill and maim, as guns are. You can't apply blanket statements to gun owners, imo. They represent a cross-section of society. Some are very reasonable, level-headed individuals. Some of them are criminals. Some of them don't feel safe and believe having a gun makes them feel safer. This group I worry a litte about because (1) they over-emphasize the relatively rare exception of having someone's life threatened by another, and (2) under-emphasize the exception of accidental gun deaths. You can't have it both ways - 99.9% of us will live happy, safe lives without needing a gun. Personally, I'm not going to add the risk of having a gun to protect myself against that 0.01% chance of needing one. Ramble over.

And that's what it's all about. Choice.

[collinwho]

You can't apply blanket statements to gun owners, imo. They represent a cross-section of society. Some are very reasonable, level-headed individuals. Some of them are criminals. Some of them don't feel safe and believe having a gun makes them feel safer. This group I worry a litte about because (1) they over-emphasize the relatively rare exception of having someone's life threatened by another, and (2) under-emphasize the exception of accidental gun deaths.

 

 

Interestingly, according to Freakanomics, the majority of people in general over-emphasize the exception of accidental gun deaths. Which isn't to say that guns aren't dangerous, just that accidental gun deaths are actually quite rare. People are led to believe that they are much more common than they are by those who feel it is ok to mislead people if it is for the common good.

 

(btw, I am in no way grouping you, or any other forum members in with those who mislead. I think quite a few people have heard the dangers enough that they just assume it is widespread)

[bbl]

Interestingly, according to Freakanomics, the majority of people in general over-emphasize the exception of accidental gun deaths. Which isn't to say that guns aren't dangerous, just that accidental gun deaths are actually quite rare. People are led to believe that they are much more common than they are by those who feel it is ok to mislead people if it is for the common good. (btw, I am in no way grouping you, or any other forum members in with those who mislead. I think quite a few people have heard the dangers enough that they just assume it is widespread)

 

 

My point was the contridiction of using rare examples to make a point, while discarding other rare examples that disprove a point. Anyone can cherry pick to make a point.

 

However, I do find irony when someone claims that "more guns = safer society", while also saying "it's not the gun, it's the person." So which is it? IMO, in general, only "more safe people = safer society."

[Bonoman]

I like you Bono, even if you're a gay canuck Actually your solution might, in fact, reduce it, but that's just not good enough. Here in the US we just turn them back out to the streets. Prison and crackdowns mean nothing to the gang scum. We do too much patty cake treatment of scumbags here and in the middleast. Besides with our pourous borders do you really think guns won't be running in and out of the US and Canada? Canada has a more open border policy than the US, if that's possible.

Our lax border has actually been getting a lot of attention lately because of the huge influx of illegal guns we're getting here. On a personal level, I love the freedom to travel between my two favourite countries in the world without much hassle, but then again, I'm not a criminal. And it works against you guys, too, as we learned on 9-11 when it turned out a lot of the perpetrators got into The States through Canada. I would hate to see the border become more harshly militarized because it would be an inconvenience to trade and travel, but in my opinion security supersedes that and something has to be done to stem the flow of illegal activity coming over both sides. It's not as much of a catch-22 as the politicians would have us believe, however, because I would rather deal with back-ups at the border and longer travel times and possibly higher prices for goods due to the wait than see some asshole fly a plane into another building.

And I like you too, hawkhuff, even if you are a nuclear arms proliferating, gun-toting, redneck bastard!

I don't actually think you're a redneck, but it was fun to call you one.

[ec437]

For all of you gun lovers, I've got a question. And I'm not trying to poke fun or get a rise out of you. I'm serious. What is it about guns that you love so much? I just don't get it, so please explain it to me. Is it the power of the recoil as it runs up your arm? Is it the smell of the gunpowder as it burns through the air? Explain it. I'm curious.

 

 

Why do you enjoy playing bass? I just don't get it. Is it because it makes loud noises that piss off the neighbors? Is it how the walls vibrate when you turn your amp up?

 

We love shooting guns for the same reasons that you love playing bass. Because we enjoy it. There isn't much more to explain than that.

 

If you don't get it, you just don't get it.

[bbl]

Why do you enjoy playing bass? I just don't get it. Is it because it makes loud noises that piss off the neighbors? Is it how the walls vibrate when you turn your amp up? We love shooting guns for the same reasons that you love playing bass. Because we enjoy it. There isn't much more to explain than that. If you don't get it, you just don't get it.

I think 99% of people would play a musical instrument if they were talented (and patient) enough.

Yet, it takes no talent or patience to shoot a gun. Hmmm. Why doesn't everyone do it?

[Bonoman]

Why do you enjoy playing bass? I just don't get it. Is it because it makes loud noises that piss off the neighbors? Is it how the walls vibrate when you turn your amp up? We love shooting guns for the same reasons that you love playing bass. Because we enjoy it. There isn't much more to explain than that. If you don't get it, you just don't get it.

 

 

That's not why I love playing bass, or guitar for that matter. It's about the act of creation for me, the attempt to attain perfection, to write the perfect line, to find the perfect note, to play the perfect chord, to find the perfect melody, to make the perfect song. It's rare that it happens, but when it does it makes me tingle all over with the energy of music.

 

Music is as close to God as we mere mortals are going to get until we reach the end of our journey. Is that what guns are like for you? Because if so, then you're right: I just don't get it.

[WynnD]

Remember that all of Iraq was armed with AK47s and Saddam Hussein was still able to control and abuse his people. Guns will never protect you from your government. Voting your own interest might.

Don't we have more important music to do than discuss guns?

[ec437]

I think 99% of people would play a musical instrument if they were talented (and patient) enough. Yet, it takes no talent or patience to shoot a gun. Hmmm. Why doesn't everyone do it?

You have obviously never been target shooting.

Sure, it doesn't take any talent to pull the trigger. But then again, it doesn't take any talent to plug the bass into the amp and bang on the strings, either.

It takes skill and dedication to shoot skeet, and hit 30 birds out of 30. It takes concentration and talent to nail a soda can with a high-powered rifle at 200 yards. And it is really f*#^ing difficult to hit anything smaller than a postcard past about 20-30 feet using any kind of pistol.

[Bonoman]

Don't we have more important music to do than discuss guns?

Tell that to these guys...

[zachoff]

You have obviously never been target shooting. Sure, it doesn't take any talent to pull the trigger. But then again, it doesn't take any talent to plug the bass into the amp and bang on the strings, either. It takes skill and dedication to shoot skeet, and hit 30 birds out of 30. It takes concentration and talent to nail a soda can with a high-powered rifle at 200 yards. And it is really f*#^ing difficult to hit anything smaller than a postcard past about 20-30 feet using any kind of pistol.

 

 

But it doesn't take much talent to put a gun to someone's head, demand something, and shoot them from point blank if your demands aren't met. I think that's more what he was getting at.

[bbl]

You have obviously never been target shooting. Sure, it doesn't take any talent to pull the trigger. But then again, it doesn't take any talent to plug the bass into the amp and bang on the strings, either. It takes skill and dedication to shoot skeet, and hit 30 birds out of 30. It takes concentration and talent to nail a soda can with a high-powered rifle at 200 yards. And it is really f*#^ing difficult to hit anything smaller than a postcard past about 20-30 feet using any kind of pistol.

Good point. My post was in jest. Honestly, at 35, I still enjoy shooting cans with my Daisy one-pump.

[ec437]

But it doesn't take much talent to put a gun to someone's head, demand something, and shoot them from point blank if your demands aren't met. I think that's more what he was getting at.

 

 

It doesn't take much talent to kill someone with a bass guitar either, what's your point?

[niomosy]

I have been shot at or in the line of fire on three occasions, so you're wrong on that count. I don't have a gun and I don't ever want to need one, and the only thing that would make me need one would be if somebody was pointing one at me. Solution? Don't give some moron the opportunity to arm himself. I don't care about criminal's rights; I care about not getting shot or having one of my loved ones taken down as an innocent bystander. You all argue that crime would decrease if everybody was allowed to carry a gun. Look at the US's crime-rate. Now compare it to Canada, Australia, England, or any other First World Democracy and you'll see that argument is false. I think it sucks for those of you who like guns and enjoy using them as hobbyists, but there are simply too many dudes out there with short-dick syndrome who can't be trusted to carry a loaded firearm, as is illustrated in the original post. And as for the whole needing it to protect yourself from your government thing, I have never seen a citizenry so afraid of their own elected officials. Your government should be afraid of you because you hold the power in your vote, but instead they've got you all spun around so that you feel the need to protect yourselves from them. How does that make sense? If you don't like something that your government is doing, vote them out. A ballot can have more power than a bullet, and it'll keep you out of jail, too.

See, the real reason Canada has less crime is that they smoke more weed than the U.S.

"Hey let's go rob the..."

"Na, dude, let's just get baked."

"Yeah, man. Cool."

Another liquor store saved

Thus, Americans should focus less on gun laws and more on public transportation and getting everyone wasted (don't want people driving stoned after all. Safety first, kids )

[Jugghaid]

It doesn't take much talent to kill someone with a bass guitar either, what's your point?

 

 

True. Ask Lug.

[hawkhuff]

Hay! I am not a redneck.

[hawkhuff]

See, the real reason Canada has less crime is that they smoke more weed than the U.S. "Hey let's go rob the..." "Na, dude, let's just get baked." "Yeah, man. Cool." Another liquor store saved Thus, Americans should focus less on gun laws and more on public transportation and getting everyone wasted (don't want people driving stoned after all. Safety first, kids )

Yeah, we keep sleeping while the malignant islamist cancer movement creeps ever closer.

[hawkhuff]

Good point. My post was in jest. Honestly, at 35, I still enjoy shooting cans with my Daisy one-pump.

And I like blowing {censored} away with my 12 guage pump shotgun. :thu:

[Jugghaid]

And I like blowing {censored} away with my 12 guage pump shotgun. :thu:

Hell yeah. gallon plastic milk jugs filled with water rule.

[niomosy]

Yeah, we keep sleeping while the malignant islamist cancer movement creeps ever closer.

You're right. Screw pot. While we're at it, let's ban alcohol, too! It worked well last time Smaller governments that stay out of personal business, indeed

[baracuda2004]

I want one of these.. been thinking about it recently.

[bholder]

Yeah, we keep sleeping while the malignant islamist cancer movement creeps ever closer.

 

 

Interesting sig there, man. So you're saying Ronald Reagan was Muslim, then?

[walkerci]

Our lax border has actually been getting a lot of attention lately because of the huge influx of illegal guns we're getting here. On a personal level, I love the freedom to travel between my two favourite countries in the world without much hassle, but then again, I'm not a criminal. And it works against you guys, too, as we learned on 9-11 when it turned out a lot of the perpetrators got into The States through Canada. I would hate to see the border become more harshly militarized because it would be an inconvenience to trade and travel, but in my opinion security supersedes that and something has to be done to stem the flow of illegal activity coming over both sides. It's not as much of a catch-22 as the politicians would have us believe, however, because I would rather deal with back-ups at the border and longer travel times and possibly higher prices for goods due to the wait than see some asshole fly a plane into another building.

This could all be avoided and we could have unimpeded travel if Canada and the USA had harmonized immigration rules, policies, and procedures.
Similar to the EU.

Keep in mind that it's not just the USA that is the target of terrorists, but all Western civilization. Make that all civilization...

"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. " Benjamin Franklin

[Bonoman]

This could all be avoided and we could have unimpeded travel if Canada and the USA had harmonized immigration rules, policies, and procedures. Similar to the EU. Keep in mind that it's not just the USA that is the target of terrorists, but all Western civilization. Make that all civilization... "The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. " Benjamin Franklin

Well, if anything, we should adopt your immigration policies as our system is faulty in that respect. In the early 90's we let in Idi Amin's wife (you know him - the ruthless dictator with more money than pretty much anyone else in Africa), and then we gave her welfare. Because the wives of wealthy war-lords can use the welfare... Also, our lax immigration policy is what allowed those 9-11 pilots access to America, and that is the one thing I will never forgive Canada for. I love my country and I love our diversity, but when I immigrated to The States I had to jump through about a million hoops and suffer through many, many intensive interviews to get my Green Card. In Canada, as far as I can tell, all you have to do is show up at our door and say "Please". It just shouldn't be that easy... Sorry to all the immigrants I'm offending right now, but you left your countries to escape a bad environment filled with the wrong sort of people in order to make a better life for yourself and your families, and I just don't see the logic of letting those 'wrong sort of people' in to ours. Most immigrants come here and are productive and fruitful members of society, but if we can weed out the criminals and the ne'er-do-wells, shouldn't we? Shouldn't we at least try to pretend to make an effort to protect our shores, plains, and mountains?

[NeonVomit]

Yeah, we keep sleeping while the malignant islamist cancer movement creeps ever closer.

Yeah, because, like, all terrorists are muslims, like the IRA, ETA, Timothy McVeigh, Baader-Meinhof, FARC, the Tamil Tigers, November 17 etc. and the only threat to the US comes from Islam and not the rising power of China