Members skatalite Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 OK, check it. I've got a GK1001RB-II. Sweet 700 watter as you all know. I run it through an Ampeg 8x10. I use a SansAmp DI pedal. Here are my settings, all o'clocks... ...On the Sans:Level: 10Blend: 3Treble: 10Bass: 2Drive: 12Presence: 5 (all the way) ...On the GK:Volume: 3Contour: 12Presence: 3Treble/High Mid/Low Mid/Bass: all 10Boost: 9Tweeter: offWoofer: 3 I use a G&L Tribute L2000 with bass, treble and volume all the way. I keep the pickups blended (middle position), paralleled (bottom) and active (middle). Now, I play with two loud guitarists. I finally told them to turn the eff down. I stand near my cabinet for the most part of practice, and even sometimes I can only slightly hear myself cut through. Could a lack of presence/volume be due to the following:
Members zachoff Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 I would level out the EQ on the Sans (treble & bass at 5ish) and set the low to 3ish, low mid 5-7, high mid 5-7 and high 3-5 on the GK. I'd also probably play with the level and drive on the Sans while also playing with the volume on the GK. You'll get volume from your PA section... I've always just used preamps as a way to make little tweaks.
Members Crescent Seven Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 I'll be sober in like 8 hours. I'll be back to help at that point. In the meantime, {censored}, dont be skurred to push that amp...C7
Members WynnD Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 Set up in perfomance formation. (That way your not getting everyone else's amp aimed for your head and you get used to hearing sounds in stage formation. Helps with gigs.) I have a 350 watt amp that has never been pushed. Why would anyone want to play that loud? (Looking to be totally deaf by 30?) Trust me, your audience doesn't need it and probably doesn't want it. (Maybe outdoors, unmiked, with 5000 rockers in front of you. Haven't had any of those gigs? Me neither. When the crowd gets that big, they will only hear the PA mains. At which point a 120 watt kickback will work.) Sounds like a nice rig, but if you never push it, it will last 100 years. Push it and you could find yourself looking at eight recones. (Over $500 out here.)
Members RIC N BACKER Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 first thought is if you have a 700 watt amp and cant hear it something is way wrong..... I have played with 4 guitarists 2 drummers and was asked to turn down my 100 watt B100R.....
Members Anesthesia Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 I have the GK400RB-IV through a GK4x10 and haven't run into a problem yet.....so you are doing it wrong Crank that thing, ya sissy!
Members Adrenochrome Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 Take a length of 4"x2" wood and apply firmly to guitarists' heads repeatedly until their volume level reduces.
Members PaulyWally Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 You shouldn't be afraid to push that amp at all. But I'm not so sure about how you're doing your EQ. You've got all the EQ's on the Bass up. You've got all the EQ's on the GK up. And the preamp, which only has bass and treble, is where you're basically doing all your contouring. Check it out... you have the bass boosted in your active electronics. Then you cut it down on the preamp... then you boost it back up again on the GK. I would try setting everything flat, and using the EQ on the GK to get the general tone you want, and so you can cut through the band. Boost the mids, drop the lows. After that, those minor alterations in sound that you'll want from song to song should come from either your bass's EQ, or your preamp. Not both because they are really performing the same purpose. In fact, you've effectively got 3 preamps in your setup. Just my .02 Not only that, but the garage will be part of it also. The higher frequencies from the guitars will reflect more so than the bass. You also don't have a floor that is suitable for carrying low frequencies. And yeah, asking the guitards to turn down may be needed also. Especially when you have two of them fighting for masturbation time.
Members skatalite Posted August 11, 2007 Author Members Posted August 11, 2007 Take a length of 4"x2" wood and apply firmly to guitarists' heads repeatedly until their volume level reduces. Haha. We'll do the performance set up and see how that goes. After practice yesterday, I asked our drummer
Members Ender_rpm Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 You have too much bass in your chain, too many gain stages, and too many things to go wrong. Plug directly inot the amp, set the amps controls flat, and use the bass' eq to get the tone you want for the space you are in. the L series pre is MORE than capable of doing that. Then reintroduce the pedal, which i assume you use for crunch/od? Keep it eq'd flat, and just use it to shape the OD sound you are after. ANd make sure you have fresh batteries in everything.
Members skatalite Posted August 11, 2007 Author Members Posted August 11, 2007 You shouldn't be afraid to push that amp at all. But I'm not so sure about how you're doing your EQ. You've got all the EQ's on the Bass up. You've got all the EQ's on the GK up. And the preamp, which only has bass and treble, is where you're basically doing all your contouring. Check it out... you have the bass boosted in your active electronics. Then you cut it down on the preamp... then you boost it back up again on the GK. I would try setting everything flat, and using the EQ on the GK to get the general tone you want, and so you can cut through the band. Boost the mids, drop the lows. After that, those minor alterations in sound that you'll want from song to song should come from either your bass's EQ, or your preamp. Not both because they are really performing the same purpose. In fact, you've effectively got 3 preamps in your setup. Just my .02 Not only that, but the garage will be part of it also. The higher frequencies from the guitars will reflect more so than the bass. You also don't have a floor that is suitable for carrying low frequencies. And yeah, asking the guitards to turn down may be needed also. Especially when you have two of them fighting for masturbation time. Yeah, didn't think of in the terms of having three pres going on. I'll try your suggestion of working with the amp first, then go from there.
Members skatalite Posted August 11, 2007 Author Members Posted August 11, 2007 You have too much bass in your chain, too many gain stages, and too many things to go wrong. Plug directly inot the amp, set the amps controls flat, and use the bass' eq to get the tone you want for the space you are in. the L series pre is MORE than capable of doing that. Then reintroduce the pedal, which i assume you use for crunch/od? Keep it eq'd flat, and just use it to shape the OD sound you are after. ANd make sure you have fresh batteries in everything. I use the Sans to shape everything and make it sound more gainy than overdriven. It's going for that "punk" sound.
Members Bluescout Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 Standard Answer: Bump the mids up.
Members i_wanna_les_paul Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 Remember, on the GK, the tone controls are active so by the time you're at 10 O'clock on the BMMT controls, you're cutting some (perhaps quite a bit) of the frequencies out. I say level them out to noon and try that. Also, the contour is like an instant "smiley face" EQ that at noon is halfway engaged. Try taking that all the way counter-clockwise to get a "flat" tone and move up from there. If the boost is at 9 o'clock, that's going to help bring the volume down, too. I usually leave the boost at noon and crank it up if I want a bit more bite and compensate on the "woofer gain" or master volume. And I'd also try moving the cab around a bit. I've never had an issue with my GK (the little I've played out with it) and it puts a smile on my face every time I play it. Dustin
Members xdamagexx Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 heck when i play with my buddies at his house we got to guitars going and they hardly even let me turn the volume to like 2 or 3. ur guitard buddy but be blowing the place down.. tell him a good guitar doesn't have to be loud just played well. (oh yeah u said Punk,... that kinda explains it...) good luck
Members skatalite Posted August 11, 2007 Author Members Posted August 11, 2007 Remember, on the GK, the tone controls are active so by the time you're at 10 O'clock on the BMMT controls, you're cutting some (perhaps quite a bit) of the frequencies out. I say level them out to noon and try that.Also, the contour is like an instant "smiley face" EQ that at noon is halfway engaged. Try taking that all the way counter-clockwise to get a "flat" tone and move up from there. If the boost is at 9 o'clock, that's going to help bring the volume down, too. I usually leave the boost at noon and crank it up if I want a bit more bite and compensate on the "woofer gain" or master volume. And I'd also try moving the cab around a bit. I've never had an issue with my GK (the little I've played out with it) and it puts a smile on my face every time I play it.Dustin Yeah, I'm going to try that suggestion, which a lot of people have suggested. I think what happened that's causing my mehness in my output is I went from having a B2R set how I liked it and put the same settings on the GK. It's, of course, a whole new monster, so I should've taken more time to play with it. However, I've also never been this self-conscious about my output. The tone is there, I get complimented on it a lot; but I need the cut and output. Changing from using a Fender Active Jazz for three years to my new GK is also a big difference for the entire rig, of course. I think, overall and from thinking more about the set up, the following things make the most impact:
Members birdboy7007 Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 I firmly agree with the vast majority of posts here. Taking another look at your EQ will make a huge difference. Contour = bad for cutting through, in my experience. The vast majority of the bass coming through is in the mids, and the contour scoops them right out. What sounds like a great tone solo may not work in a band situation, just as what is perfect in the mix may sound like ass playing by yourself in your bedroom.
Members Noise... Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 First off, why the HELL are your guitarists playing at volumes like that? When I'm playing guitar with a drummer, the volume NEVER goes over three. And I use a 100w solid state halfstack. They're using the equivalent of tube halfstacks - which, from what I've understood, seem 2.5x louder to the human ear than solid state amps. There's just no reason they need to be that loud. I would tell them to turn it down again. They need to keep it at a level where they can hear themselves, as well as everyone else. And, with them having tube amps and cabs, I'd highly assume that neither would have to turn the amps up very much at all. Another thing to try is moving your amp around in the garage. I had this same type of issue with my guitar amp when I first put it into the room I use for my music stuff. It didn't sound quite right, and I was having to turn up louder and louder to hear myself over my drummer. The amp was facing him, so of course he complained constantly. So, I moved the amp to the other side of the room so that the back of the cab was against a wall. Solved everything instantly. It even made the amp sound a bit better - I guess because the sound was more focused at me. Now, like I said, the amp's volume never goes past 3 (10 o'clock) and I don't have any issues with being heard. Even with a second guitarist and a bassist, I don't think I'd have to go past 11 o'clock. Maybe 12 o'clock at the most, but still, these are solid state watts we're talking about. Tell them to turn down and move the amps around. Also take care of your EQ issues and you should be fine.
Members skatalite Posted August 11, 2007 Author Members Posted August 11, 2007 What sounds like a great tone solo may not work in a band situation, just as what is perfect in the mix may sound like ass playing by yourself in your bedroom. The tone sounds good both ways, and I even did some recording with the band with my current settings, as described above. To hear/feel it, check out "The Pit and the Pendulum" at http://www.myspace.com/overstarsandgutters. They're rough demos but it gives you an idea of the sound, sans vox, we're going for. It's just I don't have enough mmph, if that makes any sense. It's just not prominent enough. And yeah, Anti, I think the loud guitars have a lot to do with it.
Members pbass_groovin Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 first thought is if you have a 700 watt amp and cant hear it something is way wrong.....I have played with 4 guitarists 2 drummers and was asked to turn down my 100 watt B100R..... I play with one drummer and one guitar player and cannot keep up volumewise with my B100R
Members Noise... Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 You guys sound awesome!!! Did you record the tracks at a studio, or yourselves? They sound anything but "rough" to me. I'm really curious about this - I'm trying to figure out how to record my own stuff now and I've so far figured out that a $10 cheap-o microphone from Best Buy doesn't cut it. As for the tone of the bass, I agree that it sounds good, but lacks that oomph. I'd say that's definitely in the EQ. In the practice space it's a combination of everything. Basically, as the next practice, just have everyone move their {censored} around until it sounds best to everyone. Again, great music from your band!!!
Members Noise... Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 I play with one drummer and one guitar player and cannot keep up volumewise with my B100R It's the same issue that Skatalite has. EQ, amp placement, and the volume of the other musicians. Read back over this topic for suggestions. The ones that will work for Skatalite will most likely work in your case as well.
Members skatalite Posted August 11, 2007 Author Members Posted August 11, 2007 You guys sound awesome!!! Did you record the tracks at a studio, or yourselves? They sound anything but "rough" to me. I'm really curious about this - I'm trying to figure out how to record my own stuff now and I've so far figured out that a $10 cheap-o microphone from Best Buy doesn't cut it. As for the tone of the bass, I agree that it sounds good, but lacks that oomph. I'd say that's definitely in the EQ. In the practice space it's a combination of everything. Basically, as the next practice, just have everyone move their {censored} around until it sounds best to everyone. Again, great music from your band!!! Thanks a lot, man We recorded everything in that same garage, cept for vocals which were done in a living room. We used GarageBand and miced everything up. I'll get the exact mic models and let you know. The bass on "Written in Green Ink" was recorded with a DI, which does the job but doesn't sound as good, to me anyway. Our drummer is pretty talented with mixing and using GarageBand. I credit us sounding good to him, haha.
Members Noise... Posted August 11, 2007 Members Posted August 11, 2007 Thanks a lot, man We recorded everything in that same garage, cept for vocals which were done in a living room. We used GarageBand and miced everything up. I'll get the exact mic models and let you know. The bass on "Written in Green Ink" was recorded with a DI, which does the job but doesn't sound as good, to me anyway. Our drummer is pretty talented with mixing and using GarageBand. I credit us sounding good to him, haha. That's awesome. I'd really appreciate it if you could let me know the recording gear you used. I'm trying to learn as much as I can about recording right now, so every little bit helps.
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