Members Thunderbroom Posted August 30, 2007 Members Posted August 30, 2007 One of the classes I'm teaching this semester is called "Mechanical Skills for Plant Operators". It's part of a new program we have for helping folks land jobs in the numerous refineries (ExxonMobil, Citgo,....) and chemical processing (Flint Hills, Stepan, Ineos,...) in the area. These jobs pay well: typcially ~$23 to start. I picked three books for the course. Each book is ~125 pages. These books are purchase from a publisher but are photocopies and have a glued-on strip for the binding. It's black/white/gray with some pictures of questionable quality. Since there's not a lot available in this field, I figured I'd give 'em a go. This past Tuesday (our second class...class is on Tuesdays from 5:00p - 8:40p) I overheard a student complaining about the books. I asked him what had him upset and he told me he had just picked up the books and they cost $190 out the door. $63 effin' dollars each for a 125-page photocopied book. I spent part of Wednesday in between classes doing some research and found out that the college pays about $30 - $32 each for the books from the publisher. I didn't find this info from our bookstore; I found it out by having a colleague call for prices. I also talked with a colleague that has written 17+ textbooks. He agreed that the publisher's price is way high as is the markup at the bookstore. I found out today that the books can be returned up until tomorrow, so, I just went back to the college about 30 minutes ago to talk with the students since I knew they had another class together. I told them to take the books back and get their money back. I'm going to rework the class while I teach it and work around the books. I'm also going to call the publisher next week and let them know what I think about this. Furthermore, I'm going to contact our industry training center and ask them not to use any of their products again for any industry training. This is bull{censored}. I talked with a handful of students that I teach in a college orientation class (another new class for me) and found that the average cost for their books for 12 credit hours (4 classes) is $525. Tuition is $912. I had no idea it was this bad. I paid ~$80 for a music theory book in the Spring for a class I took but just didn't make the connection. Anyway... I'm seriously thinking about totally redoing all of my courses to utlize handouts (ones in which I can reproduce legally) and point students to info on the Net for the rest. I don't normally get upset about stuff but damn...
Members BEAD Posted August 30, 2007 Members Posted August 30, 2007 Some of my calsses at PSU had to have a generic textbook on the subject taught. In one case we had a $45 book for the class as well as a $10 paperback available wherever that the prof actually taught out of. He let us know on the first day that buying the $45 book was totally superfluous. It's cool that you aren't tied to having a general text of your subject like this.
Members i_wanna_les_paul Posted August 30, 2007 Members Posted August 30, 2007 You get my "My avatar expresses my feelings" on your actions award!
Members Bass8987 Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 yeah the do rip you off. In my PR class we have to buy the freaking notes. He can't lecture all of the stuff, so we have to go to the library and pay $10 for a packet of extra notes. What sucks to, is every year I have to buy a new AP style book and can't return the year before because they are "out-dated" from the changes and won't be used again.
Members Fran da Man Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 I learned this with a Trig course, the text had level 1 and 2, but the 2 class went by a different text, thus another 100 or so, and this was in the 90's. We also learned to do this.http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-32,GGLJ:en&q=used+college+textbooks
Members Thunderbroom Posted August 31, 2007 Author Members Posted August 31, 2007 I learned this with a Trig course, the text had level 1 and 2, but the 2 class went by a different text, thus another 100 or so, and this was in the 90's.We also learned to do this.http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-32,GGLJ:en&q=used+college+textbooks I talked with a guy that teaches Calculus today as well. He said the publisher updates the book every two years to ensure continuued sells since you "can't" use older text books. He's like, "WTF has changed in calculus in the last 400 years?"
Members BEAD Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 I talked with a guy that teaches Calculus today as well. He said the publisher updates the book every two years to ensure continuued sells since you "can't" use older text books. He's like, "WTF has changed in calculus in the last 400 years?" My calculus book has an unintentionally funny forward where the authors justify the creation of their textbook. Subtle changes in the order of what is taught so that folks will learn better. I'm sure advances in teaching calculus have been made, but one new book every 10 years would probably suffice. The textbook manufacturers would disappoint stockholders if they didn't make as much money as possible though. It's hard to blame them...
Members Fran da Man Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 I talked with a guy that teaches Calculus today as well. He said the publisher updates the book every two years to ensure continuued sells since you "can't" use older text books. He's like, "WTF has changed in calculus in the last 400 years?"Yep, i also ran into the problem of them only wanting to use and teaching with/towards the Texas Instruments TI-86. I had a Casio and they were like well you can use it but you have to figure out the screens, procedures on your own...no biggie it came with a manual.
Members ezstep Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 Way to step up, Jeff. I wish more teachers would show as much concern. Our (high school) textbook prices have passed way, way above what I consider reasonable. We are reduced to purchasing Biology II (honors level) textbooks off ebay at the average of $123 each, because that is still so much cheaper than buying from the company. You would be surprised at how much of the annual budget goes to textbooks every year. (One year, English. Next year, Science. Third year, Social Studies. Fourth year, Math. Fifth year, electives. Sixth year, rinse and repeat. So we are ALWAYS buying books for about 20% of the curriculum. That's a pretty big chunk of the budget. I wish that I have invested my 403(b) into textbooks a decade ago.
Members Estebum Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 My Intro to Computer/Programming Logic book was $94.. it's a paperback thats only a couple hundred pages. My Visual Basic programming textbook was only $91 and it's twice the size + 6 discs worth of Visual Studio .NET software. I don't understand it... oh well, the GI Bill = free books and tuition to any school in the state. Anyone who has a father who served in the military should look into that.
Members Thunderbroom Posted August 31, 2007 Author Members Posted August 31, 2007 oh well, the GI Bill = free books and tuition to any school in the state. Anyone who has a father who served in the military should look into that. I served in the military. My kids do not get to go to school for free.
Members Brother Mango Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 This is the kind of things get me worked up. I recall being young & in college. I'd go get my grants & student loan money, and had no idea how much this money really was. I'd never seen $1000 before & didn't know what it took to earn $1000. So, it didn't mean a lot to go to the university bookstore, fill a cart with books, and pay the money. Maybe I had few alternatives, but I didn't even know enough to suspect that I was being molested. But the student loans stick around long after the classes are over. So, what is it that allows the markups to remain so obscene? Is it the case that college students, as textbook consumers, aren't unified in saying, "You're crazy if you think I'm gonna pay that!!"? Is it because there are a lot of students, like I was, who don't understand the big numbers? Maybe, as ugly as it is, there's a good explanation for it. Recently, I thought about taking a college class. Figured it'd be a nice thing to do. Then I looked at the tuition and all of the fees that get added on--and then the books! I decided to just bend over and take it. Well, when I was ready to pay, I found out about an additional fee for students who are just taking one class. :mad: {censored} it! I wasn't bending over that far. No way.
Members Zebra Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 I'm accustomed to textbooks equaling out to a few hundred dollars for a quarter. Most of mine can be used for later classes, so I usually don't need it for every quarter. I always assumed that professors knew about this, but maybe I should bring it up this fall to some.
Members tylytle Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 it's refreshing to see someone give a {censored} about their students. You are the man!
Moderators Kindness Posted August 31, 2007 Moderators Posted August 31, 2007 That was a classy move on your part Jeff.
Members justinbass Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 I just signed up for a music theory class with 5 required books totaling $419. That's right. $419 for one class. 4 of the 5 books get used in music theory II, but I won't be taking that. I'll have already graduated. I've only bought 2 so far, and I am going to try to borrow the other three and make copies of all 5 to save a few hundred dollars. Unbelievable.
Members mlwarriner Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 the thing that always chapped my ass were math and biology textbooks. usually the most expensive, and the bookstores never took them back. like general college math is going to change from year to year, or biology... :mad:
Members J. Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 Good for you, T-broom. College textbooks are ridiculously and inexcusably expensive, and the "new edition" trick that your Calculus teaching colleague mentioned is especially heinous (though sadly extremely common). Screw them. What a freaking racket. No wonder why school bookstores have more security devices than an airport - the books are so expensive and overpriced that students have resorted to stealing them.
Members rikshaw Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 I talked with a guy that teaches Calculus today as well. He said the publisher updates the book every two years to ensure continuued sells since you "can't" use older text books. He's like, "WTF has changed in calculus in the last 400 years?" and that screws you because you cant sell your book! :mad::mad:
Members el_duderino676 Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 It's beyond ridiculous. When I bought my books a few weeks ago, I got three used and one new, and I ended up spending ~$390, and that's with my uncle's 10% campus employee discount. I have a course this semester that the instructor added the textbook days before the class started (after I had already gotten my textbooks), and it's a paperback book that's about 250 pages. The University bookstore wants over $50 for said book. I just paid $29.30 for it shipped to me from Barnes & Noble online after various discounts.
Members MrDear Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 I'm a Librarian (adjunct faculty) at a community college in Nor Cal. This is my first night back after summer, and it is usually the saddest. Dozens of new college student fresh out of high school come up to the reference desk, practically in tears wanting to know if we have a certain textbook. I have to tell them that the library doesn't buy text books but if your instructor is nice there'll be a copy in reserve. Because it's a community college many of the students are here because their parents don't have money for university. That and the Publisher/Bookstore/College monopoly make some students just give up. The part I hate the most is when asked why the library doesn't buy textbooks I have to tell them that we don't have the money to get screwed EVERY semester for EVERY class.
Members Spin Cycle Posted August 31, 2007 Members Posted August 31, 2007 My books cost more than my tuition.
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