Chord question

[brake]

I just want to see if I understand a few things correctly.

 

 

A dominant chord that's extended to include the 9, 11, etc is simply referred to as F9, F11, etc, but what about major or minor chords that are extended to include those notes? Would you ever use something like Amin9? Fmaj11?

 

When would you use the suffix "add9", "add11", etc? I'm assuming only when you're adding in JUST that particular degree?

[chris-dax]

 

I just want to see if I understand a few things correctly. A dominant chord that's extended to include the 9, 11, etc is simply referred to as F9, F11, etc, but what about major or minor chords that are extended to include those notes? Would you ever use something like Amin9? Fmaj11? When would you use the suffix "add9", "add11", etc? I'm assuming only when you're adding in JUST that particular degree?

 

 

Bassius is one guys around here that will know the correct answer...

 

Here's my understanding...

 

F9 = dominant 7 with a 9

 

F add9 (or +9) = F major triad with a 9

 

I think that's what you said....

 

F(#9) = F with a #9 (F triad with G# on top)

 

F7(#9) = F7 with G#

 

Amin9 definitely! A beautiful and common chord....Fmaj11...heck yeah...

[PaulyWally]

 

F add9 (or +9) = F major triad with a 9

 

 

I try not to get into the habit of using a "+" sign for chord additions. I know a lot of people use it, but a lot of people also use "+" to denote an augmented chord.

 

If you use "Cadd11" and "Caug11", there's really no confusion as to which is which. Otherwise, "C+11" could possibly mean either one of those chords. Alterations should also generally go into parenthesis:

 

C(add11)

Caug(add11)

Cmaj7(b5)(add13)

 

just my .02

[Brother Mango]

 

BTW - anything above the 7th is considered a "color tone". It is no longer a scale or chord "degree".

 

 

We've got to be careful in this discussion because this can get muddy really fast. Even though we have good intentions, we can end up putting out some inaccurate info.

 

See, my understanding is that a 'color tone' is a non-chord tone. In plain old F, the G is a color tone because it's not part of the F triad. But if a chord chart tells me F9, it's telling me that the G is part of the chord, and as a bassist (not a soloist) I'm gonna use that, especially if the surrounding chords make use of the G.

 

 

I've been told that jazzers prefer to speak in odd numbers thus, a 2 becomes a 9. I don't think it's an issue of being above the 7. What if you play the F on the D string then choose the G on the E string?

 

 

Any way ... I'm gonna back out of this one before I say something patently absurd--if I haven't already.

[sunburstbasser]

The way I've been taught, when you see an 11 chord, it isn't stacked thirds like everything else. Instead, its stacked 4ths. So you'd have something like C-F-Bb-Eb. That would be written as C11.

 

Otherwise, 9s and 13s just imply the chord before as a dominant 7, unless otherwise indicated.

[Perfessor]

The way I've been taught, when you see an 11 chord, it isn't stacked thirds like everything else. Instead, its stacked 4ths. So you'd have something like C-F-Bb-Eb. That would be written as C11. Otherwise, 9s and 13s just imply the chord before as a dominant 7, unless otherwise indicated.

 

 

A 9th and an 11th chord assume a flatted 3rd and flatted 7th.

[lyricpoet]

A 9th and an 11th chord assume a flatted 3rd and flatted 7th.

As does a 13th?

 

Whew! :eek:I knew there was something I didn't understand in Sunburstbassers or Perfessor's

response. Why all fourths? Where'd that come from? Is that just for 11ths?

Ergo:

C9 is C-Eb-G-Bb-D, while

C11 is C-F-Bb-Eb ???

 

I know it's probably me, but this thread is starting to contradict itself:eek:

[mrcrow]

I just want to see if I understand a few things correctly. A dominant chord that's extended to include the 9, 11, etc is simply referred to as F9, F11, etc, but what about major or minor chords that are extended to include those notes? Would you ever use something like Amin9? Fmaj11? When would you use the suffix "add9", "add11", etc? I'm assuming only when you're adding in JUST that particular degree?

 

a goldmine for chords

 

as i understand most chords...you set out the scale of the relative root..

 

and any note in that scale even over the octaves can be altered or added..

 

Amin9...A C E and a ninth note flattened...Bb?

 

the website shows some variations..

 

[DevilRaysFan]

I just want to see if I understand a few things correctly. A dominant chord that's extended to include the 9, 11, etc is simply referred to as F9, F11, etc, but what about major or minor chords that are extended to include those notes? Would you ever use something like Amin9? Fmaj11? When would you use the suffix "add9", "add11", etc? I'm assuming only when you're adding in JUST that particular degree?

 

Yes that is correct and Yes that is correct

[DevilRaysFan]

A 9th and an 11th chord assume a flatted 3rd and flatted 7th.

 

 

A 9th and 11th chord assumes a flatted 7th only , the third is still major. That is dom7 family of chords (D7, C9, F11 etc). Each addition will have all the coponents of the previous chord member

 

 

 

If the third and seventh are both flat and there is a 9, then that is a min9 chord. (min7 family of chords i.e. Amin7, Dmin9, etc)

 

 

If both 3rd and 7th are in a the major position with a 9, that will be a Maj9 chord ( Maj7 family of chords i.e. AMaj7, CMaj9, etc..)

[bholder]

The usage of greater-than-octave interval designations has always rankled me to some extent - after all, a 9th is a 2nd, an 11th is a 4th. I understand the distinction that they're build by extending chords with additional stacked thirds, but it still bugs me. Found a decent description of the distinction between the 9th/11th type notation and the sus2/sus4 type notation here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sus4#Suspended_chords

 

Makes enough sense, I guess, though the greater-than-octave interval notation still annoys me for some reason.

[Perfessor]

 

A 9th and 11th chord assumes a flatted 7th only , the third is still major. That is dom7 family of chords (D7, C9, F11 etc). Each addition will have all the coponents of the previous chord member If the third and seventh are both flat and there is a 9, then that is a min9 chord. (min7 family of chords i.e. Amin7, Dmin9, etc) If both 3rd and 7th are in a the major position with a 9, that will be a Maj9 chord ( Maj7 family of chords i.e. AMaj7, CMaj9, etc..)

 

 

That's right. Thanks for that.

[PaulyWally]

The way I've been taught, when you see an 11 chord, it isn't stacked thirds like everything else. Instead, its stacked 4ths. So you'd have something like C-F-Bb-Eb. That would be written as C11. Otherwise, 9s and 13s just imply the chord before as a dominant 7, unless otherwise indicated.

 

Where did you get that information?

 

That is very inaccurate.

[brake]

Thanks everyone.

[sunburstbasser]

Where did you get that information? That is very inaccurate.

 

From a doctor of percussion and jazz.

[someotherguy]

I didn't realize before that 9th were 5 note chords and that 11th, & 13th chords were 6 note chords. I was reading thread this then looking at basic theory book I'd just checked out from the library. I would have left out the dominant 7th.

[DevilRaysFan]

 

I didn't realize before that 9th were 5 note chords and that 11th, & 13th chords were 6 note chords. ..................

 

 

Yes - hence the reason why a Cmaj9 and a Cadd9 are two different chords

[Bassius]

 

From a doctor of percussion and jazz.

 

 

never trust a percussionist with music theory...lol

[DevilRaysFan]

never trust a percussionist with music theory...lol

 

[Kellraj]

Usually when a chord is indicated as a "2", it means to avoid/replace the 3 with the 2nd- different than a 9th- which usually means to play the third- whether major or minor.

 

 

I've been told that jazzers prefer to speak in odd numbers thus, a 2 becomes a 9.

 

[DevilRaysFan]

 

Usually when a chord is indicated as a "2", it means to avoid/replace the 3 with the 2nd- different than a 9th- which usually means to play the third- whether major or minor.

 

 

Ive seen those here and there written as Sus2. Common chord found with keyboards and Drop D guitar tunings

[i_wanna_les_paul]

From a doctor of percussion and jazz.

Does that mean he can fix the problems I've been having with my jass?

 

Oh, and on topic: I like to play notes. Sometimes chords. Never cords.

[Rowka]

I go chordless, myself.

[Flatball]

The difference between a "C9" chord and an "C add 9" chord is in the placement of the D note (9th). In a 9 chord, it is placed at the top of the chord (C-E-G-D). Side note: a 9th usually implies the flat 7 as well, so: C-E-G-Bb-D).

 

In an "Add 9", it's really the "2" that is added: C-D-E-G.

[boseengineer]

Here is another attemot at an explanation for the "above 8" notation. Example:

C6 means a C triad with an "A" added. So it's C-E-G-A. One typical way to fret that is

x-3-5-5-5-5 or

8-x-10-9-10-8

 

C13 has the "13" which is also an "A" but it implies lot's of other stuff in between. To be precise it theoretically contains C-E-G-Bb-D-F-A. Obviously that's 7 notes and can't be played on the guitar. That chord is mostly intended to create a tention between the Bb and A with the C in the root.

So if your out of strings our in danger of breaking fingers, use (as a minimum) the 3rd (major or minor as called for), the 7th and the top note (9,11, or 13). It's acceptable to leave the root to the bass player :-)

 

Typically ways to fret C13 are

8-x-8-9-10-x or

x-3-2-3-3-5

 

A somehwat different sounding fretting would be (if you can get your thumb around the neck)

8-x-8-7-6-5

 

Since that doesn't have the 3rd in it, most would notate that as a Bbmaj7/C (B-flat-major-7 over a C root), but unfortunately chord notation is not very consistent.