Copyright advice

[BigPigPeaches]

Hypothetical situation:

Person 1 is the primary songwriter in a band.

Person 2 is not, but has some good ideas, which person 1 might conceivably appropriate for financial gain.

If person 2 files copyright on these ideas in a rough format and tells no one about it...then person 1 files copyright on the same ideas and tries to appropriate them for personal gain without giving person 2 credit (and royalties), is this pretty much open-and-shut? Or has person 2 yielded all rights by knowing that person 1 has filed copyright on person 2's material?

[DevilRaysFan]

At its least-common denominator, what counts in a copyright is the melody line and basic song structure....Arrangements are irrelevent...How does this fit into your question?

[Jim-Bass]

I thought I might be able to answer, but I'm confused.

Person 2 has filed copyright - needless of whether it is 'rough' it is copyright, as long as it has

[Jim-Bass]

...and I guess the 'ideas' of P2 are P2's intellectual property (IP). Because P1 got them from P2 we know they are the IP of P2....but if P2 yielded finished work to

[Kindness]

 

Hypothetical situation: Person 1 is the primary songwriter in a band. Person 2 is not, but has some good ideas, which person 1 might conceivably appropriate for financial gain. If person 2 files copyright on these ideas in a rough format and tells no one about it...then person 1 files copyright on the same ideas and tries to appropriate them for personal gain without giving person 2 credit (and royalties), is this pretty much open-and-shut? Or has person 2 yielded all rights by knowing that person 1 has filed copyright on person 2's material?

 

 

Copyright protection attaches to any original work of authorship fixed in a tangible media. Recordation gives notice as to claimed ownership of a copyright.

 

Much greater detail is required to make any coherent analysis of your hypothetical, but in general, person 2 has not yielded any rights.

[Jim-Bass]

Kindness, your posts and answers are always brilliant, but 'Recordation'? Is this a new word ...have you copyrighted it yet?

[Jim-Bass]

...maybe it is a cromulant word. I feel embiggened

[fretless]

That is a sticky work environment . Didn't the fees go up for the application ? Hey also file with ASCAP if you are a member .

[Kindness]

Hahahaha. "Recordation" is a term of the art. For example, you use a "recordation cover sheet" when recording a registration. I forget that outside of the legal field it is a word that does not get used. As much as I would like to take credit, I am not much of a lexicographer.

 

PS - nice avatar DRF.

[Rippin' Robin]

rec

[fretless]

ahh the fees are still the same

http://www.copyright.gov/docs/fees.html

[Jim-Bass]

 

...are you claiming that definition RR? Sure ain't in any dictionary I can see...

[Jim-Bass]

Hahahaha. "Recordation" is a term of the art. For example, you use a "recordation cover sheet" when recording a registration. I forget that outside of the legal field it is a word that does not get used. As much as I would like to take credit, I am not much of a lexicographer. PS - nice avatar DRF.

 

Kindness, you have made the word: RRobin, you have provided definition.

 

It is now in the King Jim-Bass dictionary/gloassary of soundy type words

[Kindness]

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=recordation

 

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ12.pdf

[BigPigPeaches]

I'll rephrase: I'm person 2. My songs are pretty good, and I've gotten them copyrighted (without informing anyone) to keep anyone from stealing my mojo. Person 1 decides to copyright them (with my knowledge) under the name of his own publishing group (that would be the band), and turn around and screw me later. Does my earlier copyright stand up in court if his copyright was done with my full knowledge? Or is my copyright forfeit because I knew what he was doing?

 

This is sort of a van Halen situation, but I reiterate, totally hypothetical. I'm just planning for future contingencies.

[fretless]

I'll rephrase: I'm person 2. My songs are pretty good, and I've gotten them copyrighted (without informing anyone) to keep anyone from stealing my mojo. Person 1 decides to copyright them (with my knowledge) under the name of his own publishing group (that would be the band), and turn around and screw me later. Does my earlier copyright stand up in court if his copyright was done with my full knowledge? Or is my copyright forfeit because I knew what he was doing? This is sort of a van Halen situation, but I reiterate, totally hypothetical. I'm just planning for future contingencies.

 

I'm going to guess and say you are ok , let him make a few 100k and then sue but A are you on his copyright as a cowriter ? and B if not why would you agree to it ?

[BigPigPeaches]

I'm going to guess and say you are ok , let him make a few 100k and then sue but A are you on his copyright as a cowriter ? and B if not why would you agree to it ?

His copyright is his own, with a nice fancy name attached to it, but his name is on all the paperwork.

 

In theory, we all receive credit for songwriting. But that's probably what the theory was for Eddie, Alex, Dave, and the other guy.

[fretless]

 

His copyright is his own, with a nice fancy name attached to it, but his name is on all the paperwork. In theory, we all receive credit for songwriting. But that's probably what the theory was for Eddie, Alex, Dave, and the other guy.

 

 

you would need to spend a crap load on a lawyer which is fine if any money was ever made from it but Never give away your rights unless it's for big money , even then ... So I think you should tell him you copyrighted your song , and that it is yours but if you feel he did anything for it , arrangement , new part , anything you would send another copyright , which is what you should do anyway if a original work is ever revised . Maybe you can come to terms on all the works like John and Paul . And maybe his part is only 10% which you should make clear . IIRC he is SOL anyway you were first .Good Luck !