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I can't learn theory by myself...


Death Hands

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Posted

I've been reading things and looking at books, diagrams, etcetc, and I can't get much out of it. I think I'm more a student than a self-teacher with music, but I can't find anyone in my area that's really knowledgeable and decently priced to teach me anything. I went to a few guitar teachers, and it was "What song do you want to know?", and I've visited some piano teachers, and that was all "Well, you NEED a keyboard or piano." I don't really want to learn in direct application. I want to learn THEORY, not more bass. It'd be nice to have it bass-oriented, but I'd be perfectly okay with just... straight theory. Mainlining it. :p

 

 

Rant:

Also, all of the people that I come into contact with around here for music-related business(learning, buying, selling, getting a job, etc) seem to be assholes. I had a near-argument with my new tech over MY preference for highish action, and he was pissy with my mother because she doesn't know much about instruments or how to describe problems. He was peachy with me, for the most part, but it still irritates me. I don't understand why people look at what they know and freak out when I, being many decades his or her junior usually, know more about specific things. God forbid someone study up. I mean, I wouldn't want my work to be called {censored}ty, but I wouldn't be stuck up about it if my customer wasn't satisfied.

 

Another problem related here is band stuff. I'm sick of working my ass off to get stuff set up and get familiar with a style only to have someone bitch out. It's happened three or four times recently, and I'm getting tired of it. One guy was gung-ho, and then it was all "Well, I've got too much on my plate.", another was hooah, let's do this, but, all of a sudden, he didn't want to practice at all, and another didn't show because the rehearsal space we had wasn't optimal or just {censored}ing brilliant. I'm still working with a drummer/guitarist friend of mine. We're trying to land a diverse and sort of competent guitarist to at LEAST jam with. I'm so sick of specialized, set-on-genre players, but I WANT a gig. I need to get work, but I'm running out of feasible options. The next time someone lies to me about being open musically or wanting to set up an audition, I may be hauled in for assault.

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Posted

Basic knowledge of the keyboard is the absolute best foundation to start learning theory from. I'm not saying you need a piano at home. The cheapest Walmart digital keyboard will work. Just something that has the keys laid out correctly and can make noise. I would look into local community colleges and see if they have any theory classes. You don't need to actually take the classes, just talk to the teacher about the best way to start learning theory, books they recommend, etc.

 

As for your rant. . . When I am going to do an audition, I don't even pretend to be musically open-minded. There are certain things I would be willing to play, and although I am capable of playing things outside of that, I know that I would not be happy doing that and I would in turn drag the band down. I'd rather put more time into finding the right people, and then have a solid lineup for a long time, than just find people and constantly be wishing I had something better.

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Posted

Basic knowledge of the keyboard is the absolute best foundation to start learning theory from. I'm not saying you need a piano at home. The cheapest Walmart digital keyboard will work. Just something that has the keys laid out correctly and can make noise. I would look into local community colleges and see if they have any theory classes. You don't need to actually take the classes, just talk to the teacher about the best way to start learning theory, books they recommend, etc.


As for your rant. . . When I am going to do an audition, I don't even pretend to be musically open-minded. There are certain things I would be willing to play, and although I am capable of playing things outside of that, I know that I would not be happy doing that and I would in turn drag the band down. I'd rather put more time into finding the right people, and then have a solid lineup for a long time, than just find people and constantly be wishing I had something better.

Oh, I understand that, and I can plunk out things on the keys and all, but I feel that it's more a matter of getting a teacher than finding a medium, for me.

 

The thing for me is that I play many different styles frequently. I can stick to one, and I'm often led to believe that the situation is open jam when it's really just some bull{censored} metal. I would be fine with that, but you don't need to tell me that it's totally open when you really want to hammer out a cookie-cutter metal song or something. I'd be happy just playing with some people. I'd be even happier if they weren't a collective bag of douche. Out of my handful of jams, I've only had maybe two awesome ones. One of those being a one time deal and another being the calm before the storm because I asked a guitarist to stay in key or stick with one change. :p It's just bull like that, all the time.

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Posted

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0793579910/104-0180141-3745552

 

If I were local I'd hand you this book and tell you to get reading. I think that more than most I've seen, this book can take you through all the major concepts of music theory without overwhelming you and without talking down to you. The "you" I'm referring to is specifically Death Hands, based on our many conversations. I have numerous theory books, but this is the one I think you'd really do well with.

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Posted

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0793579910/104-0180141-3745552


If I were local I'd hand you this book and tell you to get reading. I think that more than most I've seen, this book can take you through all the major concepts of music theory without overwhelming you and without talking down to you. The "you" I'm referring to is specifically Death Hands, based on our many conversations. I have numerous theory books, but this is the one I think you'd really do well with.

 

I'm gonna be ordering a few books here soon(from Amazon, coincidentally), and I'll be sure to stick that on the pile. Thanks for the reference.

 

Something like this may be what I've been digging around for. :)

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Posted

 

Basic knowledge of the keyboard is the absolute best foundation to start learning theory from. I'm not saying you need a piano at home. The cheapest Walmart digital keyboard will work. Just something that has the keys laid out correctly and can make noise. I would look into local community colleges and see if they have any theory classes. You don't need to actually take the classes, just talk to the teacher about the best way to start learning theory, books they recommend, etc.


 

 

+1. Ya gotta get a little piano and get your theory together on that. The notes are right in front of you and you can see what's going on, in addition to hearing it. This is very important for concepts such as intervals and inversions. Don't spend more than $100 on one - you can find 'em at big discount stores or even tag sales, thrift stores, or pawn shops for dirt cheap.

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Posted

I'm gonna be ordering a few books here soon(from Amazon, coincidentally), and I'll be sure to stick that on the pile. Thanks for the reference.


Something like this may be what I've been digging around for.
:)

 

Get it and dig in. If you get stuck, post about it. If you have a specific question about how the book presents something, you know you can ask me, I'll pull my copy and be able to look at exactly what you are stuck on.

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Posted

I found one of the best and most efficient ways to learn theory is to get some good books and read through slowly while writing some tunes or short chordal progressions using material you have picked up through your study.

 

 

A program where you can write record may it be midi or audio recordings can really help shape it together as you can hear it too.

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Posted

Get it and dig in. If you get stuck, post about it. If you have a specific question about how the book presents something, you know you can ask me, I'll pull my copy and be able to look at exactly what you are stuck on.

I will do so. 100%. It's something I've been thinking about, so I know that it's not a flighty, half-assed whim. I'm ready to REALLY know my stuff, in other words. :thu: That's a killer resource. Thanks, man. I know I'll take you up on the offer. :)

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Posted

Well to be fair there is a little truth to that, you can make up stuff as you go along and then analyse it to work out the theory after. But unfortunately it is always going to relate to a musical theory.

 

 

Obviously theory is really important unless you are happy playing the same old, same old every time you jam in a particular key etc.

 

A good teacher always told me when writing never apply to much theory to it until its written down.

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Posted

Well to be fair there is a little truth to that, you can make up stuff as you go along and then analyse it to work out the theory after. But unfortunately it is always going to relate to a musical theory.



Obviously theory is really important unless you are happy playing the same old, same old every time you jam in a particular key etc.


A good teacher always told me when writing never apply to much theory to it until its written down.

Killer suggestions. :) Thankyou.

 

I'll never think or feel too much in theory, mostly because I've noticed people who do that are more composers than players, and I'm not big into that. :p

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Posted

No worries mate, Went through the same headwork when I originally learned it all. I think half the time some teachers etc do not explain it properly.

 

Been playing for 17 years (grade 8 theory and above), I say above because there is alot more to learn after the grades; that kind just takes you through everything, but you can , make it as complex or as simple as you like. Personnelly I like it complex but with a little of simple in there for the hooks to grab you.

 

Anyway if you need some help send us a message I will be glad to help if I can.

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Posted

No worries mate, Went through the same headwork when I originally learned it all. I think half the time some teachers etc do not explain it properly.


Been playing for 17 years (grade 8 theory and above), I say above because there is alot more to learn after the grades; that kind just takes you through everything, but you can , make it as complex or as simple as you like. Personnelly I like it complex but with a little of simple in there for the hooks to grab you.


Anyway if you need some help send us a message I will be glad to help if I can.

 

I will do so. :) I plan on learning as much as I can, for sure. I've only been playing a couple of years, myself, and the only teacher I've had was... iffy. Inspirational, occasionally, always self-absorbed and competitive, but he didn't leave me (too) high and dry when he ran out of stuff to teach me. I think that he may've dented my bass-oriented self-respect with his alpha male bull{censored}, though.

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Posted

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0793579910/104-0180141-3745552


If I were local I'd hand you this book and tell you to get reading. I think that more than most I've seen, this book can take you through all the major concepts of music theory without overwhelming you and without talking down to you. The "you" I'm referring to is specifically Death Hands, based on our many conversations. I have numerous theory books, but this is the one I think you'd really do well with.

 

I gotta get this book too! :thu:

 

Nathan, crap like that is universal. no matter where you go you're gonna bump into some assholes who are also musicians or who you'll have to deal with. only thing is, there are some nice people out there too. just gotta find them.... i'm still looking unfortunately. :lol:

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Posted

ah dont worry, im sure you took something from it. Alot of the theory I learned originaly years back did not sink in; it was later alot of it made sense and fell into place.

 

Oh, yes, certainly. He made me (or at least shoved me down the road to being) the player I am today. I grew a lot under his wing and all, but it wasn't the BEST experience I could've had, at all. :p

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Posted

Alot of the theory I learned originaly years back did not sink in; it was later alot of it made sense and fell into place.

 

+1

 

I have an engineering degree, a law degree and lots of hobbies that have required (encouraged) serious study. No other subject has such a big swing from jibberish to total sense for me as music theory. I've had a ton of delayed light bulb moments with music theory. :idea: It's not a difficult or complex subject, relatively speaking, but you will notice a substantial improvement in your comprehension as you gain experience with its practical application.

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Posted

To true mate, practical application sorts alot of it out.

 

A good one is to take some songs and analyse them working out what keys scales and arpeggios you could use. Jazz standards can come in very handy here whether your into it or not.

 

The real book is a good tool for lots of scores of Basic Jazz standards.

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Posted

How very timely. I was just talking about this on Friday with the guys in my band and I have the same problem. I just can't seem to get it, no matter how many different ways I try to become more learned in music theory. The one route I have not tried is formal classroom training e.g. Community College. That might be my next endeavor after I complete my MBA.

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Posted

You can learn all the theory relatively easy as long as you take your time.

 

Learn the basics first:

 

Lets say

 

 

A Pentatonic minor scale (5 inversions)

 

then A Blues scale (5 inversions)

 

then C Major scale (5 inversions)

 

 

then the chords that relate to this Major key in their 5 inversions:

 

C - Dm - Em - F - G7 - Am - Bm7b5

 

The CAGED System is good for teaching yourself the 5 inversions of chords and scales.

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Posted

I didn't even have books when I started my independent study on theory...

 

I knew about the circle of fifths and I didn't even bother looking it up, I knew like 2 things about it from other musicians, and I pieced the thing together on one Sunday morning. The whole process took more or less two months..

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Posted

I didn't even have books when I started my independent study on theory...


I knew about the circle of fifths and I didn't even bother looking it up, I knew like 2 things about it from other musicians, and I pieced the thing together on one Sunday morning. The whole process took more or less two months..

Some of us aren't as talented, innately oriented, or well taught. :p

Hell, I walked out of my last lesson not really knowing anything technical. Triads, anything other than major scales, the actual parts of a song, the reason for using notes that aren't in key, etc weren't things that I was taught.

I can, however, hammer out music from sheet. :D Thank God for school band. Tuba? Ya.

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Posted

 



If I were local I'd hand you this book and tell you to get reading. I think that more than most I've seen, this book can take you through all the major concepts of music theory without overwhelming you and without talking down to you. The "you" I'm referring to is specifically Death Hands, based on our many conversations. I have numerous theory books, but this is the one I think you'd really do well with.

 

 

I got this book as recommended by Kindness. I just started reading it, and it's very refreshing!

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