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Breaking news - Off Duty Cop shoots...


walkerci

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Posted

CRANDON, Wis. (AP) - An off-duty sheriff's deputy went on a shooting rampage at a home in northern Wisconsin early Sunday, killing three high school students and three recent graduates before authorities fatally shot him, officials said. Another victim was in critical condition.

 

The suspect was 20 years old and worked full-time as a Forest County deputy sheriff and part-time as a Crandon police officer, Sheriff Keith Van Cleve said. The deputy was not working at the time of the shooting, he said.

 

Now I see at least three problems with this situation...

 

1) 20 years old is way too young to be wearing a badge that gives you the authority to make life or death decisions over civilians in 'Merica.

NO amount of training is a substitute for life experience and hopefully the maturity and judgment that comes along with it. I'm not saving that age alone confers maturity or judgment, it simply increases the odds and that is all we can do.

 

2) This guy had a full time job as a deputy sheriff and a part time job as a PO.

Sorry but this is too much for the average 20 year old in this kind of job.

Now if he was under the constant supervision of a superior officer, that might work, but being on patrol alone is a recipe for disaster.

 

3) How did this guy make it past the psychological testing?

 

It's way too easy to fall into the trap of thinking there are two kinds of people: Cops and Perps.

 

This tragedy could have been prevented.:idea:

 

Oh and by the way for all you gun hating liberals...

 

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS!!!

AND CASTLE DOCTRINE!!!

 

If the police can't or won't protect you, your family, and your property from violent crime (24 X 7) without fail, you have an obligation to protect them yourself.

 

If you don't have these rights in your state, move back to 'Merica.

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Posted

It's been all over the news here. They said it was a supposed love triangle, and he snapped. A very sad day for all the families involved. :cry:

 

I was amazed as well that a 20 year old can hold those law enforcement positions.

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Posted

Well, that just makes it obvious. We need a Constitutional Amendment to ban Police Officers. They are clearly dangerous to the American populace and need to be kept better control of.

 

 

This guy should have been picked up while going through academy. The instructors will normally ride a cadet out of the class if they think s/he wouldn't make a good cop.

"Why do you want to be an officer?"

"So I can get back at all the people that picked on me in school." True response, I {censored} you not.

 

As to the 20 yo, that is actually fairly common in rural areas. Fresh out of a regional police academy and burning both ends of the fuse to earn some money for state police academy to become a State Trooper.

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Posted

 

I was amazed as well that a 20 year old can hold those law enforcement positions.

 

 

That's what I was gonna say. You have to be 21 here to hold any law enforcement position...

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Posted

Very sad :(

 

I agree the right to bear arms makes sense in America, but more has to be done to prevent firearms from reaching the hands of those with mental problems. Which this guy clearly had.

 

Mojo to the victims' families. Seems like a very close knit community has lost many of its young people :(

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Posted

Oh and by the way for all you gun hating liberals...


THIS IS WHY WE HAVE THE
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT
TO BEAR ARMS!!!

AND CASTLE DOCTRINE!!!


If the police can't or won't protect you, your family, and your property from violent crime (24 X 7) without fail, you have an obligation to protect them yourself.


If you don't have these rights in your state, move back to 'Merica.

 

Life just isn't that bad here, in Australia, to warrant the need to bear arms.

I'm not a gun-hating liberal, but shootings (of any magnitude) over here are really rare. I don't have bars on the windows, and the front door never even gets locked. Ok, so I don't live in the center of Sydney City itself, but i'm less 20mins drive away from its heart... out in the suburbs.

 

I agree with protecting your family by any means - so I've got a baseball bat in the hall cupboard, and its never moved from that spot. I don't even live in an affluent area.

 

Do you think that if you need to bear arms, then maybe you're living in the wrong spot?

 

Move over here, I'll buy your first beer! :lol:

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Posted

 

That's what I was gonna say. You have to be 21 here to hold any law enforcement position...

 

 

 

And I'm not sure that 1 year makes much of a difference.

 

 

I just am amazed at this, it is sooo sad. Can you imagine the horror his folks must be feeling right now? Let alone all the grief of other folks of the casualties?

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Posted

...


Do you think that if you need to bear arms, then maybe you're living in the wrong spot?


Move over here, I'll buy your first beer!
:lol:

 

 

I'm thinking, a boat building community on the north of New Zealand somewhere...

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Posted

 

As to the 20 yo, that is actually fairly common in rural areas. Fresh out of a regional police academy and burning both ends of the fuse to earn some money for state police academy to become a State Trooper.

 

 

Yeah, I saw this alot a couple years ago when I was considering police work. Most state agencies are 21+. The real question is was it his duty weapon or a personal one. It will make a difference for the lawsuits that are sure to follow.

 

Either way, sad for the families.

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Posted

There are guns everywhere here. Loads of army reservists who all have guns at home, and Cypriots are hunting fanatics. Something like 60,000 people own firearms, not including reservists (although of course many of them own their own weapons). With a population as small as ours, that's a pretty damn big number.

 

Shootings are extremely rare. And when they do happen, they're almost always accidental.

 

So I guess having guns everywhere doesn't automatically mean there's gonna be many gun-related deaths. Something else is at play. We have an exceptionally low violent crime rate as well, so that must be taken into account.

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Posted

 

...


Oh and by the way for all you gun hating liberals...


THIS IS WHY WE HAVE THE
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT
TO BEAR ARMS!!!

AND CASTLE DOCTRINE!!!


If the police can't or won't protect you, your family, and your property from violent crime (24 X 7) without fail, you have an obligation to protect them yourself.


If you don't have these rights in your state, move back to 'Merica.

 

 

I agree with most everything else you wrote, but there's nothing like using someone else's personal tragedy to further your political agenda. There's no guarantee that things would have turned out differently if the victims had been armed, and considering some of them were below 18, they likely wouldn't have been anyway. For all you know, had there been more guns present, it might have turned out worse. And you've offered no evidence whatsoever that the gun ownership laws in that state had anything to do with what happened. Way to go, asshole.

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Posted

 

There are guns everywhere here. Loads of army reservists who all have guns at home, and Cypriots are hunting fanatics. Something like 60,000 people own firearms,
not
including reservists (although of course many of them own their own weapons). With a population as small as ours, that's a pretty damn big number.


Shootings are extremely rare. And when they do happen, they're almost always accidental.


So I guess having guns everywhere doesn't automatically mean there's gonna be many gun-related deaths. Something else is at play. We have an exceptionally low violent crime rate as well, so that must be taken into account.

 

 

well, 60,000 out of 788,000 isn't to high a proportion, whats that, like 1:13? US has (Form teh wiki)

 

 

About 59.1 million adults in the United States personally own a gun. In 1993-4, roughly 93 million adults, or 49% of the adult U.S. population, lived in households with guns.[6] There is no national gun register in the USA, so it is impossible to know exactly how many guns are in circulation or who has them, but the FBI estimates there are more than 200 million guns in civilian hands.[5]

 

 

Which is more like 1:5 own guns, nearly 50% live in homes that contain them. I am pro individual ownership, but even I have a rough time accepting that lower rates of ownership do not lead to lower rates of gun violence. But we have our traditional "Guvmint may become abusive, and there fore the population must be able to put down a gov't that no longer serves the interests of the people" aspects of weapon ownership. Short of a major invasion, political/economic collapse, or civil war, no major changes will be made to US gun policy in my life time. Not sure how I feel about that either.

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Posted

Factor in another 20-30,000 odd for the reservists and that's quite a proportion. Sure, not near the proportion in the US but still a considerable amount, far higher than most European countries.

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Posted

 

Life just isn't that bad here, in Australia, to warrant the need to bear arms.

I'm not a gun-hating liberal, but shootings (of any magnitude) over here are really rare.

 

 

That's probably because there's nobody there. The population density of Australia is like nuthin.

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Posted

Very sad
:(

I agree the right to bear arms makes sense in America, but more has to be done to prevent firearms from reaching the hands of those with mental problems. Which this guy clearly had.


Mojo to the victims' families. Seems like a very close knit community has lost many of its young people
:(

 

This is the common fallacy presented by Law enforcement and the media.

 

He wasn't nuts but that's the way most want to brand him because it somehow absolves others of the 'oversight'. There are far too many cases like these and it stems from the individuals sense of entitlement. A man or woman decides they are not going to allow their mates to live without them and they see the only way out is to end the existence of both. Moreover, they don't care in the least who they take with them. To some, sadly, it is a perfectly sane point of view but when it's a cop it's especially frightening.

 

There are many armed citizens such as cops, soldiers, etcetera, going through marital problems and I believe this can happen to anyone if they feel there is no way out. Ask a cop and they will tell you the most dangerous calls they take are domestic disturbances.

 

The word insane (PC - mental illness) is too easily bantied around by the talking heads. He wasn't ill, he was on his mission and he succeeded and it is so sad that he took some kids with him.

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Posted

If he's only 20, how would he have the experience necessary to know what the situations in a bar are even like? Can he even respond to problems at a liquor establishment. There's not much of a difference between 20 and 21, but that's a pretty big one for me. Becoming a firefighter would be a different matter.

 

 

 

I agree the right to bear arms makes sense in America, but more has to be done to prevent firearms from reaching the hands of those with mental problems. Which this guy clearly had.

Since the VT shooting we have taken additional steps. There are more to go, but many states have made changes. I'm not sure how in this case that's helpful, if in fact this was a snap from a love triangle deal.

 

Changes that have occurred

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Posted

This is not surprising.

 

Most cops/DPS officers (at least around here) have the I am god mentality, and use it to full effect.

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Posted

I'm nit-picking here, but it never said anything about him being on patrol alone. In fact, he was off duty. But I agree, 20 is pretty young to be trying to handle all that pressure.




This happened well after the testing. He was 20, which a pretty messed up age for most guys, especially when "love triangles" are involved. I don't believe they could have weeded him out before he snapped... *reminds me of "Me, Myself, and Irene".*




:blah:

 

That's a crock of {censored}. I hate when people try to make excuses for others bad actions.

 

He can be a soldier but not a cop because it's too much pressure? :freak:

 

It's not pressure, that's psychobabble. It's and self absorbed attitude he had that made him believe no one else was going to have the woman and he didn't care how many he had to kill to make his point.

 

That's just plain evil. You can do all the {censored}ing test you want and they won't tell you {censored} about a person.

 

Psychology = Black Magic

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Posted

It's a tragedy for sure, but I can understand where the guy was coming from (or seems to have been coming from). When I was 19, I lost what I thought was the "love of my life" and it was the catalyst that triggered a depression which ended up lasting three years. She jerked me around as typical fickle teenage girls do, and I didn't take it very well. After having sporadic contact, I got a threatening email in broken English written by her newest boyfriend.

 

The fact is, I thought long and hard about buying a shotgun and killing the both of them and any one of her new group of friends that got in the way. It made perfect sense at the time, and quite honestly felt like the right thing to do. I can't even describe how badly I wanted to do it or how easy it would've been to make that decision. Thankfully I refrained from doing so when I didn't think it was worth a lifetime in prison. If I was willing to die myself via suicide or cop shootout, I would've gone ahead with it.

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Posted

 

It's a tragedy for sure, but I can understand where the guy was coming from (or seems to have been coming from). When I was 19, I lost what I thought was the "love of my life" and it was the catalyst that triggered a depression which ended up lasting three years. She jerked me around as typical fickle teenage girls do, and I didn't take it very well. After having sporadic contact, I got a threatening email in broken English written by her newest boyfriend.


The fact is, I thought long and hard about buying a shotgun and killing the both of them and any one of her new group of friends that got in the way. It made perfect sense at the time, and quite honestly felt like the right thing to do. I can't even describe how badly I wanted to do it or how easy it would've been to make that decision. Thankfully I refrained from doing so when I didn't think it was worth a lifetime in prison. If I was willing to die myself via suicide or cop shootout, I would've gone ahead with it.

 

 

And the majority of us do the same.

 

Been there too bro.

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Posted

 

That's probably because there's nobody there. The population density of Australia is like nuthin.

 

 

Not entirely true. Yes our country is one of the most sparesly populated on the planet.... but thats because a massive percentage live in and around the cities, and the rest is just wide open land.

 

The US is ranked at 172nd for population density, and Australia is 224th (Wikipedia figures), but if you look at the city of Sydney, the density is MUCH higher.

 

I think half of it is that people just aren't that motivated down here, its generally too hot! We could never have a civil war... if someone said the other half of the country was attacking, most people would just say "Bloody idiots! We're going to the beach to sink a few beers instead."

 

We see the gun violence over in the US as really trivial. (warning: about to make a very generalised statement, don't take it to heart) How can you guys be so pissed off that you feel the need to carry a gun around?

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Posted

Okay, this story is really messed up. I just heard a report on a local morning radio show that there was quite a lapse of time between when the killer shot those six kids and when the cops finally apprehended him. Apparently he went home and talked with his family, took a nap, and did a bunch of other things. There were a dozen or so different calls placed to 911 before the cops actually went out and got him. It's now unclear whether he shot himself or was brought down by a police sniper.

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Posted

I was pulled over by a state cop a few months back. He looked like he was about 18 years old....no good punk

 

I was with my friend and he got pulled over by a hot state trooper. Couldn't have been older than 24. He was doing 85 in a 50 zone. She wrote him a ticket for 60 in a 50 zone. He shoulda gotten her number :mad:

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