So that Al Gore guy...

[RSBro]

Are you guys not paying attention? He got the aware for "raising awareness", and regardless of what you think of him or his movie, he has indeed done that.

And as has been pointed out, we had no idea "GW" as a theory even existed before he made his flick, so by all means- he totally deserves it!

[King Kashue]

I didn't say affect - I said control ... let's be clear on this cause in my book it's quite different.

 

 

So you did...Those are different.

 

 

I still don't see how nukes back in the late 40's caused our "GW" today- if anything, some 30 odd years later we were getting colder!!

 

 

Oh, I wasn't saying it was. I was just giving a tongue-in-cheek example of humans affecting the Earth.

 

 

To be serious, climate change or not, pollution is a demonstrable fact. "Greenhouse gasses" may or may not do anything to the climate, but a number of them are quite toxic to humans, and particulate pollution (produced by burning fossil fuels) is most definitely a threat.

[RSBro]

To be serious, climate change or not, pollution is a demonstrable fact. "Greenhouse gasses" may or may not do anything to the climate, but a number of them are quite toxic to humans, and particulate pollution (produced by burning fossil fuels) is most definitely a threat.

I agree with you here- it's not like we have to be complete slobs about it, but let's at least get with "facts", when they are provable and irrefutable, and not just group everything we do together and say "Ok, for this 30 years we did this and it made it colder. Well now we're saying for these 30 years we're doing this and it's getting hotter." Wafflin' like Kerry on that just makes the "experts" look silly in my mind.

If anything, hell I read an article online earlier this week that the hole in the ozone layer was shrinking. And I'm not kidding either- I should have bookmarked it!

[King Kashue]

If anything, hell I read an article online earlier this week that the hole in the ozone layer was shrinking . And I'm not kidding either- I should have bookmarked it!

It is.

Manmade Ozone depletion is a function of CFC. Those have been greatly reduced and thus the hole is getting smaller.

Ozone depletion has nothing to do with Climate Change.

[Picker]

I'm not going to enter into the debate (pointless)... But I thought I sould mention.

The Peace Prize was awarded jointly to

"The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a joint project of the United Nations Environment Program and the World Meteorological Organization, has been monitoring evidence of climate change and possible solutions since 1988"

And to Al Gore who ...

"The Norwegian Nobel Committee characterized Gore as "the single individual who has done most" to convince world governments and leaders that climate change is real, is caused by human activity and poses a grave threat. Gore has focused on the issue through books, promotional events and his Academy Award-winning documentary, "An Inconvenient Truth."

"As with last year's award to Bangladeshi banker Muhammad Yunus, whose pioneering use of small loans to the very poor contributes to the stability of developing nations, this year's prize focused on an issue not directly involving war and peace, but seen as critical to maintaining social stability.

In highlighting the IPCC's science and Gore's advocacy, peace prize committee chairman Ole Danbolt Mjoes said the hope was to use the power of the prestigious award to focus on an issue of planetary importance. "

(source of quotes The Washington Post)

.
.

[hawkhuff]

So you did...Those are different. Oh, I wasn't saying it was. I was just giving a tongue-in-cheek example of humans affecting the Earth. To be serious, climate change or not, pollution is a demonstrable fact. "Greenhouse gasses" may or may not do anything to the climate, but a number of them are quite toxic to humans, and particulate pollution (produced by burning fossil fuels) is most definitely a threat.

 

 

Again, you're talking pollutants and no one argues that point. It is well taken and the US is out front in many cases.

 

The biggest greenhouse gas is water. Much less significant is carbon dioxide and methane. Neither H2O and CO2 are pollutants. You're confusing the two issues.

[RSBro]

It is. Manmade Ozone depletion is a function of CFC. Those have been greatly reduced and thus the hole is getting smaller. Ozone depletion has nothing to do with Climate Change.

Beside the point-
the global alarmism that's caused by people like Gore is that we're at the imminent implosion of our earth or something. Doesn't Gore have a like a countdown for where we are going to burn up in 10 years? Thought I'd seen that as well.

I remember being younger, actually worried about the ozone and stuff like that b/c of what you heard on the news and we weren't going to be able to grow crops and all starve in a few years. But of course, it never happened nor came close to it. It's the same here. People have been saying for longer than most of us all put together have been alive we're at some crossroads in existence and if we don't act today and all this other stuff, well then we're just screwed.
And of course, it didn't happen any of those other times either. Why is this time different?

I'm just wondering, from a non higher force standpoint, do people explain that an "ozone layer" reacts and in essence "heals" itself? Is it like a living organism with a mind and existence, or what?

[misterhinkydink]

Yeah, mankind certainly couldn't affect the earth...

[hawkhuff]

I'm not going to enter into the debate (pointless)... But I thought I sould mention. The Peace Prize was awarded jointly to "The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a joint project of the United Nations Environment Program and the World Meteorological Organization, has been monitoring evidence of climate change and possible solutions since 1988" And to Al Gore who ... "The Norwegian Nobel Committee characterized Gore as "the single individual who has done most" to convince world governments and leaders that climate change is real, is caused by human activity and poses a grave threat. Gore has focused on the issue through books, promotional events and his Academy Award-winning documentary, "An Inconvenient Truth." "As with last year's award to Bangladeshi banker Muhammad Yunus, whose pioneering use of small loans to the very poor contributes to the stability of developing nations, this year's prize focused on an issue not directly involving war and peace, but seen as critical to maintaining social stability. In highlighting the IPCC's science and Gore's advocacy, peace prize committee chairman Ole Danbolt Mjoes said the hope was to use the power of the prestigious award to focus on an issue of planetary importance. " (source of quotes The Washington Post) . .

 

 

This is one large pant load.

 

Scientists have yet to understand climate let alone climate change and all its contributing factors.

[hawkhuff]

It is. Manmade Ozone depletion is a function of CFC. Those have been greatly reduced and thus the hole is getting smaller. Ozone depletion has nothing to do with Climate Change.

 

 

You believe this?

 

There is evidence to dispute this.

[hawkhuff]

Your point?

We should be dropping some nukes on Europe?

[lug]

Your point? We should be dropping some nukes on Europe?

I like how the fallout respected some political borders.

[bnyswonger]

I find it amusing that most everyone here is ready to tear Al Gore a new asshole for winning the prize...do he think he solicited that? Honestly?

If you think humanity has no ability to affect the globe, where the hell did all the passenger pigeons go?

How come we almost lost several other bird species until it was recognized that DDT was quickly eliminating them - at which point modifying human behavior changed the outcome?

I'm not arrogant enough to think I know everything there is to know about ANYTHING. Perhaps you can share with me why you are.

[misterhinkydink]

I like how the fallout respected some political borders.

It's more interesting that the political borders are reflected in the instrument placement.

[hawkhuff]

I find it amusing that most everyone here is ready to tear Al Gore a new asshole for winning the prize...do he think he solicited that? Honestly? If you think humanity has no ability to affect the globe, where the hell did all the passenger pigeons go? How come we almost lost several other bird species until it was recognized that DDT was quickly eliminating them - at which point modifying human behavior changed the outcome? I'm not arrogant enough to think I know everything there is to know about ANYTHING. Perhaps you can share with me why you are.

Yes, but there are some scientists and many many politicians who are arrogant enough to think they do know all about climate change. In fact, they do not.

All one has to do is look at how many times NOAA has revised its hurricane forecast this and last year. And these are short term climactic forecasts.

[lug]

I find it amusing that most everyone here is ready to tear Al Gore a new asshole for winning the prize...do he think he solicited that? Honestly? If you think humanity has no ability to affect the globe, where the hell did all the passenger pigeons go? How come we almost lost several other bird species until it was recognized that DDT was quickly eliminating them - at which point modifying human behavior changed the outcome? I'm not arrogant enough to think I know everything there is to know about ANYTHING. Perhaps you can share with me why you are.

There are only a few rips on Gore. Most of the rips are on the Committee for politicizing a prestegous award. Like I said earlier, there are plenty of recipients who get the award years or even decades after the work once it's been proven/tested exaustively. If Gore is right, the award should be awarded...in about a decade or so, maybe. Awarding it now is just plain dumb..unless there somehow could be another agenda at work here.

[RSBro]

I find it amusing that most everyone here is ready to tear Al Gore a new asshole for winning the prize...do he think he solicited that? Honestly? If you think humanity has no ability to affect the globe, where the hell did all the passenger pigeons go? How come we almost lost several other bird species until it was recognized that DDT was quickly eliminating them - at which point modifying human behavior changed the outcome? I'm not arrogant enough to think I know everything there is to know about ANYTHING. Perhaps you can share with me why you are.

You want arrogance?

How about thinking you as a human have the ability to control space and weather and the globe with a muffler!

[Jugghaid]

If you haven't talked about it, then my question wasn't to you

Fair enough. didn't stop me from chiming in though.

Though here's a question to you: What specifically do you believe is his political agenda (just a quick summary).

Quick and dirty, Al Gore is the epitome of what some pundits call an "environmental whacko". (as long as it doesn't affect him personally and HE won't have to change his lifestyle). His base and popularity have always been rooted in the environmental movement. Therefore if he can cause a greater panic on an environmental issue, and "spread the word" so to speak, he can broaden his base and populairty. Now for him, it's not gonna get him into the White House anymore, but he CAN throw his support behind others that are as kooky as he is. Read his book. You'll see what I mean. Bottom line, it's about scaring people into votes and political clout. If he REALLY cared about the environment, he would be doing things in his personal life to affect change.

EDIT....it all comes down to power, money and control. As with any politician really. Controlling the populace. Controlling votes. Using emotionally charged rhetoric to do so. And so far as money goes, well getting your supporters BILLIONS of dollars in grants to further their studies and keeping them published and in the spotlight is a pretty good way to go.

Also, why do you believe that others do not have a political agenda?

You are making an incorrect assumption. I DO believe that others have a political agenda. Both sides of the argument. No doubt in my mind.

[Mudbass]

I find it amusing that most everyone here is ready to tear Al Gore a new asshole for winning the prize...do he think he solicited that? Honestly?

 

 

I'm not tearing Algore a new one because he got the prize, I'm tearing the Nobel Prize committee a new one for even considering Algore.

[King Kashue]

The biggest greenhouse gas is water. Much less significant is carbon dioxide and methane. Neither H2O and CO2 are pollutants. You're confusing the two issues.

 

 

No, I'm not confusing the issues. I specifically said "climate change or not", specifically separating the issues.

 

What I'm saying is that the reduction of burning fuel and the development of alternative forms of energy is a positive, completely ignoring and potential climate change.

 

And H2O can certainly be a pollutant, since water vapor provides an aerosol vector for particulate matter (I.e., part of smog is water vapor carrying particles).

[Jugghaid]

I'm not tearing Algore a new one because he got the prize, I'm tearing the Nobel Prize committee a new one for even considering Algore.

 

 

And, as I pointed out earlier, Rush Limbaugh.

[hawkhuff]

You want arrogance? How about thinking you as a human have the ability to control space and weather and the globe with a muffler!

:D :D

I couldn't agree more.

Come to think of it, now that the world community (implication to the UN too) is 'aware' of climate change, let's see just how well the UN handles Russia, China and India with their environmental laws or lack there of.

[Jugghaid]

:D :D I couldn't agree more. Come to think of it, now that the world community (implication to the UN too) is 'aware' of climate change, let's see just how well the UN handles Russia, China and India with their environmental laws or lack there of.

Kyoto.

[King Kashue]

You believe this? There is evidence to dispute this.

 

There's evidence to dispute just about anything

 

The way CFCs interact with Ozone is basic chemistry. Now, their effect on the Ozone layer is slightly more complicated, but unlike Climate Change, there actually is a strong consensus on the matter, which is why industries changed the way they use CFCs.

 

There's a reason no one really fights about the Ozone layer any more. The production of CFCs was cut, the depletion was reduced in the manner expected, everyone's happy.

[Jugghaid]

The way CFCs interact with Ozone is basic chemistry. Now, their effect on the Ozone layer is slightly more complicated, but unlike Climate Change, there actually is a strong consensus on the matter, which is why industries changed the way they use CFCs.

 

 

Very true. And therein lies the difference between these two issues. Basic chemistry vs. an extremely complex system (climate and climate change) that we actually know very very little about.