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Thunderbroom

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Not necessarily. With this particular model, that heavy honking bridge will act against the weight of the headstock and tuners, whereas with the solid body, that heavy bridge will not have as much of a counterbalancing effect. That's at least if I remember my basic math and fulcrums/teeter totters correctly.

 

 

The two G&L's have the same bridge so that is not a factor, and the chambered one is lighter in the body so it will dive more than the solid body assuming similar wood weight.

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Not necessarily. With this particular model, that heavy honking bridge will act against the weight of the headstock and tuners, whereas with the solid body, that heavy bridge will not have as much of a counterbalancing effect. That's at least if I remember my basic math and fulcrums/teeter totters correctly.

 

You don't. :p

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The two G&L's have the same bridge so that is not a factor, and the chambered one is lighter in the body so it will dive more than the solid body assuming similar wood weight.

My post was regarding the same bridge on both. The solid body will move mass toward the middle, thus counteracting the bridge's mass. The hollow body has mass distributed differently (at each end and lower), thus balancing a bit differently.

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My post was regarding the same bridge on both. The solid body will move mass toward the middle, thus counteracting the bridge's mass. The hollow body has mass distributed differently (at each end and lower), thus balancing a bit differently.

 

 

The balancing point is the forward strap button. Any less weight from any source on the body side of that button causes more dive. Any less weight on the neck side of the button, or more weight on the body side, reduces dive. The lighter body will cause more dive.

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The balancing point is the forward strap button. Any less weight from any source on the body side of that button causes more dive. Any less weight on the neck side of the button, or more weight on the body side, reduces dive. The lighter body will cause more dive.

This bass had an extra 16 ounces of metal added just above and inside of the button. This was done by a local and reputable music shop to provide better balance on a bass with considerable neck dive. It helped fix the issue,;)

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My post was regarding the same bridge on both. The solid body will move mass toward the middle, thus counteracting the bridge's mass. The hollow body has mass distributed differently (at each end and lower), thus balancing a bit differently.

 

 

First you calculate the center of mass for the object. Then you identify the upward torque of the force applied to the strap button in relation to the center of mass to counteract potential neck dive. Since the hollowbody's center of mass is located further towards the nut, it requires more force to counteract neckdive.

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This bass had an extra 16 ounces of metal added just above and inside of the button. This was done by a local and reputable music shop to provide better balance on a bass with considerable neck dive. It helped fix the issue,
;)

 

Which is because the center of mass of the bass was further towards the bridge than the added mass. :thu:

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The balancing point is the forward strap button. Any less weight from any source on the body side of that button causes more dive. Any less weight on the neck side of the button, or more weight on the body side, reduces dive. The lighter body will cause more dive.

 

 

The key point is the center of mass, not the strap button. Weight on either side of the center of mass affects the balance. The distance of the strap button from the center of mass determines the force needed to maintain balance.

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First you calculate the center of mass for the object. Then you identify the upward torque of the force applied to the strap button in relation to the center of mass to counteract potential neck dive. Since the hollowbody's center of mass is located further towards the nut, it requires more force to counteract neckdive.

 

Mine was much simpler.:D But since were breaking out the geek speak, you could easily calculate how much weight to install in the body to put the balancing point at whatever fret location you want. First thing though you have to find out the weight of the bass, and exactly where it can hang and balance exactly level from. Then use the weight x lever arm = moment formula's to calculate shifts in the bass' CG, and you can know the exact weight to add to any given spot on/in the body to make it balance where ever you want.:p

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But since were breaking out the geek speak, you could easily calculate how much weight to install in the body to put the balancing point at whatever fret location you want. First thing though you have to find out the weight of the bass, and exactly where it can hang and balance exactly level from. Then use the weight x lever arm = moment formula's to calculate shifts in the bass' CG, and you can know the exact weight to add to any given spot in/in the body to make it balance where ever you want.
:p

 

I like your geekiness. :thu:

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First you calculate the center of mass for the object. Then you identify the upward torque of the force applied to the strap button in relation to the center of mass to counteract potential neck dive. Since the hollowbody's center of mass is located further towards the nut, it requires more force to counteract neckdive.

The center of mass on that hollowbody isn't located closer to the neck. That's part of my premise on why the guy's ad for the ASAT makes sense. A standard ASAT has more mass located above the strap button. The hollowbody has less mass located above the strap buttons, thus making that ship more sea worthy.

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The key point is the center of mass, not the strap button. Weight on either side of the center of mass affects the balance. The distance of the strap button from the center of mass determines the force needed to maintain balance.

 

 

Nope. Once you have a fixed hanging point, which is the strap button, that becomes the fulcrum point in a lever. the moments of the weights on each side of that point determine the balance, or dive characteristics.

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Nope. Once you have a fixed hanging point, which is the strap button, that becomes the fulcrum point in a lever. the moments of the weights on each side of that point determine the balance, or dive characteristics.

 

Fair point. It's a matter of picking the point of reference. Four years of statics taught me that much. :thu:

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It is.



edit: that is a wholly unsatisfactory response, but I'm finding it hard to illustrate my point due to the limitations of the forum.

Well yes. I understand your point and generally agree with you, considering the acoustic basses I've owned. I guess where I'm coming from is that there is considerably less mass above the strap buttons on that hollowbody. Doesn't that assist the balance by technically moving the mass of the body lower? Also unlike most hollow bodies that bridge is really heavy.

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Fair point. It's a matter of picking the point of reference. Four years of statics taught me that much.
:thu:

 

Yes, you can pick any point of reference to measure everything from, but it still is determined by the strap button location in relation to the moments on each side of it. 20 years of planning airplane weight and balance problems taught me that much. :thu:

 

 

;)

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Yes, you can pick any point of reference to measure everything from, but it still is determined by the strap button location in relation to the moments on each side of it. 20 years of planning airplane weight and balance problems taught me that much.
:thu:


;)

 

Yes sir. Your analysis is better. I definitely agree. I just picked the center of mass and went with it. In retrospect, your analysis is more efficient.

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Compared to the same exact bass, only with a solid body? No. Is that where I am missing your point?

 

 

I think he's getting at that on the hollow body, the top half of the body (bass side) was carved out, while the bottom half (treble side) is still solid and heavier, which would make a lower CG. If this is the case it makes no difference to neck dive, all that matters is the total weight and where the upper strap button is. So when the total weight is less (hollow body) there is more dive.

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Compared to the same exact bass, only with a solid body? No. Is that where I am missing your point?

Correct. I understand removing weight forward of center moves the weight towards the headstock. I'm also considering that the weight was removed from above, not below. Taking both ASATs, one semi-hollow and the other solid, my premise is that the heavy G&L bridge has more affect on the balance of the semi-hollow body than it does on the solid.

 

On a side note I can and can't wait for my kid to get in high school so that I can remember some of this math. I never have a need for this kind, so it's pretty much forgotten. I think I'll defer to you and L-1329 on the math, as well as the Pilot here, who I would hope understands weight distribution for the sake of his passengers.:D

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