Members 2tall Posted November 17, 2007 Members Share Posted November 17, 2007 http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5303222.html In a case legal experts say may "stretch the limits" of the state's self-defense laws, a Pasadena man shot and killed two suspected burglars during a confrontation as they attempted to flee his neighbor's property Wednesday afternoon. In the minutes before the fatal shootings, Pasadena police said the man called 911 and reported that he had heard glass breaking next door and saw two men entering the home through a window. Still on the phone with police, the man, believed to be in his 70s, saw the suspects leaving from the back of the home. "I'm getting my gun and going to stop them," the neighbor told the dispatcher during the 2 p.m. call, according to Vance Mitchell, a spokesman for Pasadena police. "The dispatcher said, 'No, stay inside the house; officers are on the way.' "Then you hear him rack the shotgun. The next sound the dispatcher heard was a boom. Then there was silence for a couple of seconds and then another boom." After the shotgun blasts, the telephone line went dead. But the neighbor called police again and told a dispatcher what he had done. When police arrived moments later, they found two dead men in the 7400 block of Timberline Drive. One was across the street, and the other had collapsed two houses down behind a bank of mailboxes in the Village Grove East subdivision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Death Hands Posted November 17, 2007 Members Share Posted November 17, 2007 Bad.Ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Perfessor Posted November 17, 2007 Members Share Posted November 17, 2007 I fired two warning shots in the direction of the burglars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 2tall Posted November 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2007 Listen to the 911 audio.I'm kinda scared that this guy would kill someone over a "lute". I think he'll probably do time for this, and should...IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Optimus Prime Posted November 17, 2007 Members Share Posted November 17, 2007 In Florida you can only shoot someone if they are on YOUR property and if you think they might actually kill you and still it gets investigated and you still might get put in jail. My dads friend is a cop and I ask all kinds of questions because of the dumb stuff me and my friends do., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 2tall Posted November 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2007 The reporters fail to mention whether or not the burglars were armed or not, or did I miss that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted November 17, 2007 Members Share Posted November 17, 2007 I fired two warning shots in the direction of the burglars. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mytola Posted November 17, 2007 Members Share Posted November 17, 2007 I think he'll probably do time for this, and should...IMO. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted November 17, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 17, 2007 People should consider themselves lucky if they have a neighbor like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roguetitan Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 if a person is willing to commit a crime they should be prepaired to suffer the concequences if they are caught committing a crime the man had every right to defend the safety of his neighborhood and probably felt it was his duty to do so. I guarantee you that no other criminals in their right mind will try to burgelarize in that naighborhood again killing criminals caught in the act of committing the crime is a very good deterant IMO. i dont think it is being emphasized enough here that these 2 thugs were criminals and evidently the pictures of the 2 men are not family photos, they are mug shots so that tells me right there they have a criminal back ground well they are retired now! I hope the old man gets an accomidation for keeping his neighborhood safe from thugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zebra Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 Listen to the 911 audio.I'm kinda scared that this guy would kill someone over a "lute".I think he'll probably do time for this, and should...IMO. He said "bag of loot." The bad part is that it seems he went out for a kill and nothing less. There was no "put it down" in the call, or "stop or I'll shoot." Rather, the 911 call blatantly records him saying "you're dead" immediately followed by boom boom boom. Not gonna do too well in court I presume. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xdamagexx Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 wow... Don't piss off your neighbors...!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Derek5272 Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 He said "bag of loot." The bad part is that it seems he went out for a kill and nothing less. There was no "put it down" in the call, or "stop or I'll shoot." Rather, the 911 call blatantly records him saying "you're dead" immediately followed by boom boom boom. Not gonna do too well in court I presume. :/ He actually says "Move, you're dead." So he did warn them. I'm assuming they moved, and he carried through with his promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kontra Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 People should consider themselves lucky if they have a neighbor like that. If my mate's neighbour thought like that guy did I'd probably be dead right now, last week I dropped by his house and his neighbours thought I was breaking in, he called the cops who were there in about 5 minutes and 10 seconds to establish that I wasn't breaking in, much more preferable to a stomach full of lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 This sucks, because Im on the side of any "Home Invasion" is an act of terrorism...I mean, if people cant feel safe in their own homes, then our judicial system is {censored}ed...Personally, i wish this guy was my neighbor ---- and he sends out a clear message: There are certain people in the USA who will not be sheep and allow any lawbreaking perp to walk all over them, their neighborhood, and the law, as a whole...If a perp is going to be a perp, then I say he really needs to think over the consequences of his actions...The way most current state laws are setup, the consequences of home-invasions are a little bit of time in jail if caught: thats it..I dont see that as a deterrent...Having neighbors being able to deter any invasion offense in a given neighborhood is certainly a good thing (Yes, I understand the ramifications of the grey areas here)........This guy will probably do time by current standards, but I say that those standards need to be changed...... ...and I write this as a police chopper flies over my house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roguetitan Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 This sucks, because Im on the side of any "Home Invasion" is an act of terrorism...I mean, if people cant feel safe in their own homes, then our judicial system is {censored}ed...Personally, i wish this guy was my neighbor ---- and he sends out a clear message: There are certain people in the USA who will not be sheep and allow any perp to walk all over them, and the law, as a whole...If a perp is going to be a perp, then I say he really needs to think over the consequences of his actions...The way most current state laws are setup, the consequences of home-invasions are a little bit of time in jail if caught: thats it..I dont see that as a deterrent...........This guy will probably do time by current standards, but I say that those standards need to be changed...... Can I Get an AMEN?! HELLYEAH!... I Mean AMEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Undead Sycip Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 Yup, he's going to jail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HackedByChinese! Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 He'll do time, and likely deserves it. The article is right in saying that this will stretch the limits of self-defense laws, if they're even applicable to him. The neighbor was under no threat to life or limb, and it probably would have worked out better in the end had he merely gotten a description of the men or even done a "citizen's arrest" with weapon in hand until police arrived. This isn't "badass," it isn't brave. It's stupid and reckless use of deadly force in a situation that did not demand its application. EDIT: To those saying that they deserved to die for this crime, would you demand the same punishment if it was your son or daughter caught committing a similar crime? Do you honestly think that death would be a fitting punishment? Whatever. Guns solve everything and make you look cool doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HackedByChinese! Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 He actually says "Move, you're dead." So he did warn them. I'm assuming they moved, and he carried through with his promise. That's a warning in the same way that this post is a book report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Derek5272 Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 That's a warning in the same way that this post is a book report. What more would it take to constitute a warning? You have 2 criminals leaving the scene of the crime. An armed man tells them he'll shoot if they move. I don't see how that isn't a warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HackedByChinese! Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 What more would it take to constitute a warning? You have 2 criminals leaving the scene of the crime. An armed man tells them he'll shoot if they move. I don't see how that isn't a warning. Reading it a second time, it makes more sense. Doesn't cover his ass any more than if he hadn't said anything, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 Reading it a second time, it makes more sense. Doesn't cover his ass any more than if he hadn't said anything, though. Yeah, well I bet this Dr. wishes he had that guy as a neighbor http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20706697/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Derek5272 Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 Reading it a second time, it makes more sense. Doesn't cover his ass any more than if he hadn't said anything, though. Right. I'm not saying that he acted correctly, unless the first guy he shot made a move towards him after the warning. The other guy was obviously running away though, because he made it 2 houses away before dieing. If he tried to stumble away after getting shot point blank with a shotgun, I don't think he would've made it that far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members HackedByChinese! Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 Yeah, well I bet this Dr. wishes he had that guy as a neighborhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20706697/ This is a completely different situation, and definitely one that would have demanded the use of deadly force, had it been available as an option. The situation we're talking about occurred under a completely different set of circumstances that did not justify deadly force. This man may be in the right when it comes to moral principle (and that's a major stretch), but he isn't on the right side of the law, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted November 18, 2007 Members Share Posted November 18, 2007 This is a completely different situation, and definitely one that would have demanded the use of deadly force, had it been available as an option.The situation we're talking about occurred under a completely different set of circumstances that did not justify deadly force. This man may be in the right when it comes to moral principle (and that's a major stretch), but he isn't on the right side of the law, IMO. ...If I were that man, and I saw someone breaking into my neighbors house, I wouldnt know what the criteria is for determining wether or not the perps are breaking in to steal a few panties or if they mean bodily harm on my neighbors family...If I caught them leaving, I dont know if they are carrying a sackful of bling or a severed head...What this man does know is that these people are invading a home that is clearly not theirs to enter, and that they are clearly breaking the law to do malice, and that the family and homeowner of the target house could be at risk, and that if he stops them NOW, he may be saving lives in the process and that they won't ever risk breaking into anybody else's home - including his - in the future......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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