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Opening for Umphrey's Mcgee/Speaker Cabinet Woes


Retrovertigo

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My band had the great fortune to open for Umphrey's Mcgee at City Hall in Nashville last Friday. Overall it was incredible, but it was hard to fully enjoy while on stage. I seem to be going to through amps/cabs like water. Both my Ampeg 410HLF and my Avatar 410Neo are starting to go. Now, I realize that I'm 'under powering' the avatar with a GK 1001, but I certainly never push my amp to clip. After a 2 months, it is bottoming out in the low range. So I went back to using my Ampeg for these last few road gigs. And what do you know...farting out in the low end.

At any rate, I was looking at Aged Horse's Speaker Failure thread in FAQ and am now even more confused. For an amp that pushes 700 watts, should I get a cab that handles double that, or exactly that or what? I was looking at getting a Schroeder 210212, but I'm not entirely sure that I won't destroy that, too.

Sorry for being so long winded, but advice would be excellent.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

 

Umphrey's is a terrific live act by the way. Tight, fresh with quality sound. They're all really nice people, too. Check them out if you have the chance.

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Umphrey's is a terrific live act by the way. Tight, fresh with quality sound. They're all really nice people, too. Check them out if you have the chance.

 

 

Wow, that's AWESOME!!! My husband and I are huge UM fans. I've seen them many, many times. That's really cool you got to open for them. Sorry about your problems though.

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I'm kinda confused here-

 

so you play your cabs for a few months, and then the drivers start to "die"? I've yet to have this happen on any cab in my previous possession, so can't help there.

 

But props on that opening shot! Those guys are pretty slick. :thu:

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I'm kinda confused here-


so you play your cabs for a few months, and then the drivers start to "die"? I've yet to have this happen on any cab in my previous possession, so can't help there.


But props on that opening shot! Those guys are pretty slick.
:thu:

 

Well the Ampeg I've had for about a year. The Avatar has only lasted me 2 months. I tend to push a lot of lows. Not dub lows, but I like a big sound.

Space is an issue on the road, so I can't add a 15 (which I'm sure would alleviate a lot of my problems)

 

Hopefully I can figure something out before we play with them again in Grand Rapids, MI (better yet, before my next gig)

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That's odd. You sure you don't have a short in your amp that's maybe causing it or something?

 

Like you, that's the sound I go for- nothing crazy in the dept where you'd need a sub, but solid low end. Maybe a Schro R series? See GG's cab thread, and a 21012R may be good for yas, or even a 4 ohm Powerhouse 212!

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no kidding.


whats the band's name? any music on archive.org?

 

The band is called Frank Bang's Secret Stash

Nothing on archive, but you can find some music on myspace. There is also a free download of us at the Orange Peel in Ashville, NC from May at http://www.frankbang.com.

You have to type in your e-mail and this password to get it ( 59584884 )

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If both of your cabs are doing it, it may not be the cabs, or it may be the way you have your amp set up. I used to crank the lows, and crank the low on my active EQ, never farted a bass cab out (blew up a PA speaker, though, it actually caught fire!!) I think there has to be a balance of the EQ boosts and your master volume, because if you crank the EQ then crank the master, you're just begging for trouble...... you'd be amazed at how much the lows come out when they aren't too blasting, but there...

 

just a thought.

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If both of your cabs are doing it, it may not be the cabs, or it may be the way you have your amp set up. I used to crank the lows, and crank the low on my active EQ, never farted a bass cab out (blew up a PA speaker, though, it actually caught fire!!) I think there has to be a balance of the EQ boosts and your master volume, because if you crank the EQ then crank the master, you're just begging for trouble...... you'd be amazed at how much the lows come out when they aren't too blasting, but there...


just a thought.

 

 

+1 here.

 

That's why I set my amps about flat (as the Mesa puts out the bootay in spades even at 12:00), and love having onboard EQ options. Can tweak what I need a little more/less of from there.

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I'm going to address your various point individually and briefly. It is possible you might misinterpret my tone, but my intention is to provide as much useful information in the fewest amount of words so that there is no confusion. I am not trying to be curt or condescending.

 

 

At any rate, I was looking at Aged Horse's Speaker Failure thread in FAQ and am now even more confused.

 

 

Possibly because you think you are dealing with a speaker failure when in fact you are dealing with having the wrong cabinets for your needs.

 

You need to either rethink your EQ voicing or use cabinets that can handle the signals you are sending them.

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I'm going to address your various point individually and briefly. It is possible you might misinterpret my tone, but my intention is to provide as much useful information in the fewest amount of words so that there is no confusion. I am not trying to be curt or condescending.




No they aren't.




This is important information. If you are not clipping your amp, you are not in a situation where "underpowering" is an issue.




Exactly the way both of those cabinets are designed.




Possibly because you think you are dealing with a speaker failure when in fact you are dealing with having the wrong cabinets for your needs.


You need to either rethink your EQ voicing or use cabinets that can handle the signals you are sending them.

 

 

I appreciate the input. I do realize that 410s are not totally ideal(and that I'm not under powering them), but they do have the presence and tone I prefer. The biggest problem is that when on the road, I can't really fit anything bigger than a 410 in the van.

The Avatar sounded awesome in the low end from day one. It was authoritative and clear. Now, however, there is a papery buzz/fart no matter where I play on the neck that is accentuated starting around the A on the E string on down.

I've never been overly impressed with the Ampeg in situations bigger than a medium size club jazz gig so we won't even talk about that.

 

What might you recommend? I'm lost right now.

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I appreciate the input. I do realize that 410s are not totally ideal(and that I'm not under powering them), but they do have the presence and tone I prefer. The biggest problem is that when on the road, I can't really fit anything bigger than a 410 in the van.

The Avatar sounded awesome in the low end from day one. It was authoritative and clear. Now, however, there is a papery buzz/fart no matter where I play on the neck that is accentuated starting around the A on the E string on down.

I've never been overly impressed with the Ampeg in situations bigger than a medium size club jazz gig so we won't even talk about that.


What might you recommend? I'm lost right now.

 

 

It's not so much a problem with 4x10s in general as it is with those two cabinets. Neither is designed to handle much excursion in the low end. Despite their thermal ratings, any more than about 100 watts of power in the low end will cause them to fart. There are great 4x10 cabinets that can really handle what is thrown at them. For example, the Aguilar DB410 is a fantastic cabinet. I'll think about some others and post what I come up with.

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ampeg pr-410hlf is very good in the lower registers

 

 

I have had very limited personal experience with this cabinet, though I have had some. My experience, which has been backed by other bass players whose ears I trust that have spent more time with it, has been that it is a solid cabinet that pumps out nice lows until you run out of power handling and excursion. Unfortunately I believe that the low power handling limits are legitimately right at about 100 watts. For me, this would be of little consequence. I have proven to myself that 85 watts and an efficient 1x15 will get me through all of my gigs with headroom to spare. However, even a moderate boost of the low frequencies or even a lack of low frequency cut as the volume is increased can made this cabinet run into its mechanical limits quickly.

 

 

edit: I see that I am talking about the 410HLF and you might be talking about an older discontinued model with which I have no experience. Sorry.

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But your amps and your cabinets defy space and convention! They're special, like LavaMan cables!

 

How can you get by with so little, when the rest of us need so much??!? :mad::mad:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

;)

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But your amps and your cabinets defy space and convention! They're special, like LavaMan cables!


How can you get by with so little, when the rest of us need so much??!?
:mad:
:mad:

;)

That's what happens when a drummer and a guitard can play at lower sound levels, too.:thu:

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