Members guitargod0dmw Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 Somebody agrees with me How does that agree with you? He's saying to put it in the effects loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 The 166 should be run in the (serial) effects loop as that's what us amp designers have intended this loop for. Most pro rigs are set up this way. The typical effect loop on a bass amp is around +4dBu (nominal) and works perfectly with the 166 set at the +4 sensitivity position. This configuration minimizes gain modulation noise that many compressor's gain cells generate. There is plenty of range on the threshold control and there is no danger of doistortion when properly used either as a limiter or as a compressor. IF you need very heavy limiting, additional makeup gain will need to be added (via the output level control on the 166), but really heavy limiting (like 20dB) isn't all that desireable for most playing styles. Pedal compressors ooperate from much lower voltages, have lower operating headroom and may not work well in an effects loop since they are designed to operate with a signal from about -30 to -10dBu. Often, these will distory when operated in an effects loop unless the send level is reduced AND there is sufficient makeup gain after the device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tenyearsgone Posted November 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 Do you own it already? I ask because the built in comp on the Eden is really pretty good...like Mesa. yeah, i got it a while back. i dont like built in compressors, i wanted more options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tenyearsgone Posted November 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 i wish i could get a diagram showing what to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ModmanQ6 Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ModmanQ6 Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 i wish i could get a diagram showing what to do What amp do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2007 Damn wades_keys, you have a lot to learn before you start spouting off as an expert. You are doing everyone a disservice by your postings. That compressor is DESIGNED to be run in the effects loop. That is the only position in which it will effectively function. As agedhorse points out, this is how MOST pro rigs are set up. Personally, the only time I use compression is in the studio and it is always post tracking. In that scenario the compression is assuredly post-pre. That is where it is useful to me. I never use compression to avoid clipping my pre, I use it to squash dynamics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 27, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted November 27, 2007 Not to disturb the argument, but I just wanted to note that way earlier LanEvo mentioned using one channel as a comp and the other channel as a limiter. This isn't necessary with the 166XL....you can use the comp, gate and lim on one channel simultaneously, if and as needed. And now to really throw a monkey wrench into the gears, try learning how to use the 166's side chains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 Damn wades_keys, you have a lot to learn before you start spouting off as an expert. You are doing everyone a disservice by your postings. Look man, I already admitted I had it wrong about the FX loop levels. The point I was trying to make is for me, it has always worked best running it before the distortion - which I get from my preamp. Others seem to agree. I also said every rig is different, dig it? {censored} - you all make it like all music is rules based - as long as you're not blowing the damn thing up ultimately it's what sounds best to the individual, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tenyearsgone Posted November 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 What amp do you have? Eden WT800 and an SVT4 but i'm just hooking up the dbx into the Eden and keeping it and selling the SVT4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ModmanQ6 Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 {censored} - you all make it like all music is rules based - as long as you're not blowing the damn thing up ultimately it's what sounds best to the individual, right? Experimentation is key in any signal chain. Different sounds from different sequences of processors... tune it to your ear as you like it... nothing is set in stone... My original post was just a suggestion from my own experience and my tastes - YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2007 {censored} - you all make it like all music is rules based - as long as you're not blowing the damn thing up ultimately it's what sounds best to the individual, right? Absolutely, look at my sig. However, it doesn't help to talk tough (see most of your posts above for examples) when you aren't sure of the concepts yourself. Less informed musicians will pull up this thread and think there is a reasonable argument for running this compressor at instrument level before the preamp. Nothing could be further from helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 Experimentation is key in any signal chain. Different sounds from different sequences of processors... tune it to your ear as you like it... nothing is set in stone... My original post was just a suggestion from my own experience and my tastes - YMMV Yeah, same here really but it got all twisted somehow - I guess trying to explain what I just know works for me...???? I got the levels wrong on FX loop - but really my op was talking about running it after the preamp - in between it and power amp. Might work for some - doesn't work for me cuz I push about +3b to my power amp, dig? Could the comp be padded down, thresholds set lower, etc - sure - but I don't like that - it skews my ref point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 I dig all of that. Absolutely, look at my sig. However, it doesn't help to talk tough (see most of your posts above for examples) when you aren't sure of the concepts yourself. Less informed musicians will pull up this thread and think there is a reasonable argument for running this compressor at instrument level before the preamp. Nothing could be further from helpful. Talk tough? Whatever man - I just know what works for me. Sorry but I thought that's what this was all about - musicians have their own way of doing things sometimes and I thought I'd explain my rationalization for putting the comp early in the signal chain. I never said it was "right" or anyone else was "wrong". I never claimed to be an expert - what's that mean anyway? From an engineering standpoint, it makes no diff to put comp before or after distortion. My ears tell me otherwise. So if nothing else, the bottom line for the informed reader would be: use your ears, and experiment, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ModmanQ6 Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 Eden WT800 and an SVT4 but i'm just hooking up the dbx into the Eden and keeping it and selling the SVT4 I haven't used this amp and find the stereo outs intriguing, but if you want to insert it before your eq section, then use the top send and return (pre FX) directly under the red line level knob. If you want it to smooth the final signal, plug it into the send and (L/R returns either/or or use a Y splitter if using both)which is directly below the other FX loop. Does this help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2007 So if nothing else, the bottom line for the informed reader would be: use your ears, and experiment, right? Totally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 I can see your reasoning for concern in having a compressor placed in the signal chain after the pre-amp, but I think that's the way it's done almost everywhere, except for with guitars, where the compressor is used to enhance sustain rather than the typical use I hear ya - good info. Not to beat a dead horse, but I agreed with where you said placing it "pre-tone" in the fx loop... I've also got active's, like I already said so really I'm already pre-amping the signal before it hits the compressor. Does that make more sense now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2007 I've also got active's, like I already said so really I'm already pre-amping the signal before it hits the compressor.Does that make more sense now? No because that compressor is a line level device and an instrument level signal will not enable it to function correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 No because that compressor is a line level device and an instrument level signal will not enable it to function correctly. My onboard preamp creates a line level signal is what I was trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 27, 2007 CMS Author Share Posted November 27, 2007 I never said it was "right" or anyone else was "wrong". Well, you definitely didn't use those exact words, but I don't think anyone reading this thread who didn't understand compression would walk away thinking a compressor would work as a compressor if it was in a post-preamp effects loop. Your entire line of logic is wrong. A hotter signal does not have an adverse affect on a compressor. The threshold, attack, ratio and release are all set relative to the signal level you're working with. You seem to be arguing that you don't like compression applied to a distorted signal. That's fine and its your personal preference, but it in no way means that the compressor isn't working as a compressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2007 My onboard preamp creates a line level signal is what I was trying to say. What is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 That's fine and its your personal preference, but it in no way means that the compressor isn't working as a compressor. Yeah, I'll take that - works for me - shouldn't have used absolute terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 What is it? An unqualified pronoun, apparently? :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 27, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2007 An unqualified pronoun, apparently? :poke: Seriously, what is your preamp? That is a unique way of running things and I'm very curious how and why you have a bass setup in that manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ModmanQ6 Posted November 27, 2007 Members Share Posted November 27, 2007 ...but all of this is moot if you're using a Lava cable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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