Members Thunderbroom Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 As some of you know, I'm starting to work with the singer in my band on her originals. Many of her songs don't fit in with our band, so she's starting to do gigs in Chicago either solo or with a guy playing lead along with her on acoustic/vocals. I'm going to start playing fretless (and eventually upright) bass with her. I'm sitting in next Thursday night. We're not going to practice. We're just showing up and playing. Due to the brief time I have to familiarize myself with her tunes, my playing will be minimal at this first gig. My basslines will be simplistic and I likely won't play the whole hour. I have crude recordings of a few of her songs and am learning them now and will get a few more at our band rehearsal on Friday night. I'm taking my Zoom on Friday and recording some of her songs then to work on a little before next Thursday. Anyhow, there's a part in one of her songs where she goes back and forth between A and Am a few times. For some reason I've been led to believe that you must play the root on the one, but I'm finding that alternating from the root on the A to the C (minor third) on the Am sounds pretty good. Is that "wrong"? It sounds fine to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mlwarriner Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 It sounds fine to me. and therein lies your answer man. if it sounds good, it must be "right"... assuming it jives well with everything else that's going on, i don't think that the "rules" of playing music are that restrictive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jazz Ad Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Root on the one is far from being a definite rule, especially with chords that don't fit in a single key.What you do is fine, it emphasizes on the changing 3rd. Using E as a passing note sometimes will make this shine out even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Perfessor Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Try an A and Cmaj7 instead of A and Am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassesofalessergod Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tylytle Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Root on the one is far from being a definite rule, especially with chords that don't fit in a single key. What you do is fine, it emphasizes on the changing 3rd. Using E as a passing note sometimes will make this shine out even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitargod0dmw Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Nothing is ever wrong if it sounds good! I don't care how busy or boring my lines are, as long as they fit the song and sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Captain Fathead Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Nothing is ever wrong if it sounds good! I don't care how busy or boring my lines are, as long as they fit the song and sound good. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t3ch Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 I have no idea what's going on. I need to catchup on some theory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PaulyWally Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Agreed. If it sounds good, do it. I've caught a little slack from Jazz cats in the past for playing major 7th's over dominant chords. I don't do it all the time, just once in a while to add a little spice. But to me, it really adds a nice tension/release when approaching a new chord. Whatever sounds good, man... that's my motto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Exactly right about the third - you're underscoring it. I think the best thing to keep in mind when doing tunes you don't know real well is that part of of the Hippocratic oath that physicians take - "above all else do no harm". Whatever you can do help support her tunes will be great, I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members frunobulax Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 i salute you, sir. you can still bring it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted November 28, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 i salute you, sir. you can still bring it. I don't get the reference, but I'm not the sharpest tool in the drawer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PaulyWally Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 I don't get the reference, but I'm not the sharpest tool in the drawer. Yeah... I got kinda lost on that one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brother Mango Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Nothing is ever wrong if it sounds good! I don't care how busy or boring my lines are, as long as they fit the song and sound good. Here's a problem with thinking this way: I used to jam with some guys, and because I'm working on my ear, I refused to stop them and ask what chord or chord progression they were playing. I'd jump in and rely on my ear to play something that sounded good. The guitarist used to ride my ass because he was expecting to hear the root note from me. He'd go home and listen to our recording and then offer a roundabout apology because he'd hear that what we played AS A GROUP sounded really good. Basically, I might be playing the 3rd or 5th instead of the root. Maybe I'd put something underneath his 9th-chord that made it sound "good" but was different from what he expected. More to Thunderbroom's question ... Your puzzle has a lot to do with the people/person you're playing with. Speaking in the broadest terms, it's a "jazzy" thing to do if you don't play the root on beat 1. Also, the bass in some Caribbean musics regularly invert chords. It's not criminal to do these things in rock, blues, etc, but if the people you're playing with get rattled when you play something other than the root, you've got options. Among them: 1. Can you explain to the person what you're doing, and have them say, "Ok, cool."? Or, 2. Are they leaning on the bassist for the root, and anything else will make them think they're lost in the song form??? Thus, you're as much a tour guide as you are a bassist. So, you play the root and help hold everything together. One other thing. As the bassist, you can play any note that you want to. The problem is with some notes you're gonna have a whole lot of explaining to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 28, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 28, 2007 All good points above. One more thing to consider is the vocal melody. I find that when I am constructing lines in songs like Katie's, I harmonize the vocal melody more than the guitar progression. You might be taking a cue from what you are hearing that makes that C even more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted November 28, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 28, 2007 . . . . .One more thing to consider is the vocal melody. I find that when I am constructing lines in songs like Katie's, I harmonize the vocal melody more than the guitar progression. You might be taking a cue from what you are hearing that makes that C even more appropriate. +1. You beat me to the punch about the vocals. If she is singing during the A-Am portion, harmonizing a line with her vocal is a really strong possibility. Also, T-Broom, you have something going with the C. If she's not singing or that doesn't work for you, perhaps try something back and forth between A-C# when she's playing the A and A - C when she's playing the minor. A - passing E - C# . . . . .A - passing E - C. PS - nice avatar change, T-Broom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkee1 Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Ever heard of "relative minors"? That is not cousins who are under 18 (). Cmajor has a relative minor, which means minor scale that has the exact same sharps and flats, and follows the same step pattern. It sounds right to you because Cmajor and a minor are the same scale. Am is the relative minor to Cmaj. Make sense???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Derek5272 Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 I see no problem with playing it as an Am/C... I do stuff like that all the time when I feel it sounds better than playing the root. Mostly in situations that have something like a G D Em progression or something like that, I'll switch the D to a D/F#. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassgirl9 Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 You're playing a chord inversion. No worries mate, it sounds okay to you because it is okay. It's probably the smartest move you can make with the bassline and probably highlights her vocal line. Throw in some passing notes and you're off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitargod0dmw Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Here's a problem with thinking this way: I'm confused. I still don't see the problem you speak of. You explained how playing a note other than the root became beneficial after your guitarist heard it, right? Which enforces what T Broom is doing by playing the 3rd instead of a root. He asks if this is ok to play, and I replied by saying as long as it sounds good. Sounds like we're all on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted November 28, 2007 Moderators Share Posted November 28, 2007 I'm confused. I still don't see the problem you speak of. You explained how playing a note other than the root became beneficial after your guitarist heard it, right? Which enforces what T Broom is doing by playing the 3rd instead of a root. He asks if this is ok to play, and I replied by saying as long as it sounds good. Sounds like we're all on the same page. In context, Tbroom will be playing these songs for the first time with the singer at the gig. The last thing he wants to do it confuse her or throw her off, even if later she would agree it sounded good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitargod0dmw Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 In context, Tbroom will be playing these songs for the first time with the singer at the gig. The last thing he wants to do it confuse her or throw her off, even if later she would agree it sounded good. Ah...good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members justinbass Posted November 28, 2007 Members Share Posted November 28, 2007 Ever heard of "relative minors"? That is not cousins who are under 18 ( ). Cmajor has a relative minor, which means minor scale that has the exact same sharps and flats, and follows the same step pattern. It sounds right to you because Cmajor and a minor are the same scale. Am is the relative minor to Cmaj. Make sense???? Beat me to it. Another way to look at it. the 3rd of a chord is very important in the voicing of the chord, in making the chord sound like it does. Much moreso than the 5, especially when going from A to Am. The C is the note that changes the feel from A to Am, so it can be very appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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