Members Thunderbroom Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 Last night my band played at a new venue. When the soundguy came up to the stage, I asked him to use the DI on my amp. He told me he never uses the DI's on bass heads because they're all noisy. He then proceed to call out brands that he's had problems with: GK, Ampeg and Fender to name a few. I told him this head was none of the above and that the DI was dead silent. I told him if he did get any noise that it wasn't coming from my DI as I'd experienced this same discussion with other soundguys. I got a smirk from him at this point though the exchange between us was very cordial. When we soundchecked, all he could say was "the bass sounds GREAT". On a side note, this was probably the first time I couldn't hear myself clearly on stage from my rig. We were not that loud either. It was frustrating as I had to rely on listening to the mains to hear myself. The soundguy had never run sound for a country band, admittedly, and had a bit of trouble adjusting. Our first set sounded like a dub/house mix. Despite the crazy-ass weather yesterday, we still had a decent crowd at this place who didn't want us to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkee1 Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 Last night my band played at a new venue. When the soundguy came up to the stage, I asked him to use the DI on my amp. He told me he never uses the DI's on bass heads because they're all noisy. He then proceed to call out brands that he's had problems with: GK, Ampeg and Fender to name a few. I told him this head was none of the above and that the DI was dead silent. I told him if he did get any noise that it wasn't coming from my DI as I'd experienced this same discussion with other soundguys. I got a smirk from him at this point though the exchange between us was very cordial. When we soundchecked, all he could say was "the bass sounds GREAT". On a side note, this was probably the first time I couldn't hear myself clearly on stage from my rig. We were not that loud either. It was frustrating as I had to rely on listening to the mains to hear myself. The soundguy had never run sound for a country band, admittedly, and had a bit of trouble adjusting. Our first set sounded like a dub/house mix. Despite the crazy-ass weather yesterday, we still had a decent crowd at this place who didn't want us to stop. Soundguys like to do things the same way for everyone. It makes them feel like they're in control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members james on bass Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 Soundguys like to do things the same way for everyone. It makes them feel like they're in control. +1. As a side, I had always heard good things from Soundguys about the DI on my GK800RB. They usually would have their own DI ready to go, then look at my amp and DI from it instead. My new band has a soundguy that comes with us gig to gig, and he likes my Yorkie DI just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 +1. As a side, I had always heard good things from Soundguys about the DI on my GK800RB. They usually would have their own DI ready to go, then look at my amp and DI from it instead. My new band has a soundguy that comes with us gig to gig, and he likes my Yorkie DI just fine. I told him I had to problem with him running his own DI but assured him it wouldn't be necessary after trying the GB DI. On a few occasions I've had soundguys complain about noise coming from the DI. On every occurence they traced it back to a problem on their end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 The only weakness I have found in the GBE750 was a little hiss in the DI, it's not dead quiet. Well, that and no footswitch mute... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 The only weakness I have found in the GBE750 was a little hiss in the DI, it's not dead quiet. Well, that and no footswitch mute... I use my pedal tuner to mute the amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkee1 Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 The only weakness I have found in the GBE750 was a little hiss in the DI, it's not dead quiet. Well, that and no footswitch mute... I get complaints that the signal is too hot. It's the only thing I miss about the GBE 600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 I get complaints that the signal is too hot. It's the only thing I miss about the GBE 600. Can't you adjust the signal on the DI?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkee1 Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 Can't you adjust the signal on the DI?!? Yes, but it involves changing the gains. When I get the in and out gains on the front of the head where I like them, it is invariably too hot for some soundmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 Yes, but it involves changing the gains. When I get the in and out gains on the front of the head where I like them, it is invariably too hot for some soundmen. Pre/Post or DI Level?!? I send a Pre signal from my head to the board. I can then EQ the head on the stage so that I can hear it. From what I can figure out, the way I EQ it on the stage so that I can hear myself clearly may not be the best way for it to come out of the mains. That's why I don't send Post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members poorboy Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 I could never understand bass players that argue with the sound guy.I play bass. What the sound guy wants to do with my signal is his business.Use a mic,use a DI ,use the line out.I don't care what he does as long as it sounds good.And it better sound good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 I could never understand bass players that argue with the sound guy. I play bass. What the sound guy wants to do with my signal is his business. Use a mic,use a DI ,use the line out. I don't care what he does as long as it sounds good. And it better sound good. In my case, it wasn't a matter of arguing. I told him ultimately that he could do what he wanted but that he shouldn't assume all onboard DI's on bass amps suck. He's a believer now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkee1 Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 Pre/Post or DI Level?!?I send a Pre signal from my head to the board. I can then EQ the head on the stage so that I can hear it. From what I can figure out, the way I EQ it on the stage so that I can hear myself clearly may not be the best way for it to come out of the mains. That's why I don't send Post.I generally send Post, cause I want my EQ in the mix, but maybe I'll try Pre next time.Poorboy- you're right, but......your last line illustrates the crux of the problem.I know how to make my bass sound good, he doesn't.Having said that, however, I usually walk into a venue, and ask the soundman how he wants to run me, and tell him I have a Studio quality DI output, or I have a Direct box, or you can mic my cab, or we'll use your DI Box. "What do you think is best?"Most sound guys are amazed that I asked what they think, and I gain their trust. I haven't had a soundman give me a bad bass mix since.I will also usually pull my favorite joke out of the bag, and ask for 3 channels of bass: left, right and center, with the left on a 1.5 millisecond delay, and out of phase, and all effects oin the right.When they stop laughing......they give me great tone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 I generally send Post, cause I want my EQ in the mix, but maybe I'll try Pre next time. How do you know that the EQ that you have dialed in on stage sounds great in the FOH mix? I'm asking, not because I'm trying to be a smartass, but because you're in a totally other league from me so I'm trying to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkee1 Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 How do you know that the EQ that you have dialed in on stage sounds great in the FOH mix? I'm asking, not because I'm trying to be a smartass, but because you're in a totally other league from me so I'm trying to learn. I don't, which is why, if I trust the soundman, I'll let him do it his way. If I have a long enough cord (or when my wireless was working), I'd go listen to the FOH, and see for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted December 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 I don't, which is why, if I trust the soundman, I'll let him do it his way. If I have a long enough cord (or when my wireless was working), I'd go listen to the FOH, and see for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 I get complaints that the signal is too hot. It's the only thing I miss about the GBE 600. I'm sure you're on it already, but the DI level switch can be set for mic or line, -30db or +4db according to the manual... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Funkee1 Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 I'm sure you're on it already, but the DI level switch can be set for mic or line, -30db or +4db according to the manual... Which is which?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 Which is which?????? Mic is -30, line is +4. If you're running it in line, switching to mic should really drop the signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted December 2, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 2, 2007 I could never understand bass players that argue with the sound guy. I play bass. What the sound guy wants to do with my signal is his business. That's easy. The soundguy doesn't know jack about your band and where you fit in the mix. Imagine Geddy Lee or Chris Squire getting it on with a soundguy at a venue they never played. "Hey, Getty. I'm just gonna DI you straight off your bass." POST EQ everytime, either DI or mic. My tone is my business, not the sound guy's. It's the job of the sound guy to fit my tone in the mix. Just like a guitard, tone comes from technique, picks/instrument and amp/speakers. Train the sound guys right for those of us who actually do care about our tone getting to the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rummy Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 Last night, the sound guy used the DI out of my Little Mark II. It worked perfectly, and I loved how it sounded, too. Now i know the DI works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted December 2, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 2, 2007 In my case, it wasn't a matter of arguing. I told him ultimately that he could do what he wanted but that he shouldn't assume all onboard DI's on bass amps suck. He's a believer now. Exactly. It is good to show the sound guy that inherent biases aren't always right, but it is also helpful to do it in a way that is cooperative, not combative. I can certainly understand from his perspective why he'd rather simply throw his DI in front of your amp so he doesn't have any reason to mistrust the signals and doesn't have to troubleshoot new setups every time a new band takes the stage. Mark, I want to talk about you sending a post EQ line to the board. I understand the concept of not trusting the sound man implicitly, but what happens when you send a post EQ signal? He still has final say on the mix unless you are going to be playing standing right next to him with a ruler ready to smack his knuckles. In my experience, he still is going to do some tweaking 99% of the time; he is still going to do things his way, because he can and should - that's his job. So now that you are sending it post EQ, he is working with a signal that has already been shaped. What happens if he starts booting what you've cut and cutting what you've boosted? My technique is when the sound man hits the stage to setup the bass rig I let him know I am on board with him using his DI (or offer one of mine if I consider it to be an improvement over the house DIs). However, I give him a 15 second verbal description of what I am trying to accomplish with my bass tone and then give him a 15 second playing demonstration with my rig. Now he knows what I am looking to do as an artist and can make it happen, or at least {censored} it up less, in the FOH. For example: "I tend to keep a bit more upper midrange and treble in my signal that the typical bassist. I'll also be playing most of these songs with a pick. Based on what we are trying to accomplish as a group tonight, I'd appreciate it if you made sure not to roll off my high end as you might do for the typical gig. Here, I'll let you hear what I'm talking about." Then I'll play an illustrative example. It literally takes 30 seconds and every single sound man I've done this with has been extremely cool about it and usually really excited. A lot of these guys do sound because they really like it and "talking shop" is fun for them too. By conveying what I want from him without acting like I know more than him and without telling him how to do his job we become a team and I find my band and I get treated very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted December 2, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 2, 2007 That's easy. The soundguy doesn't know jack about your band and where you fit in the mix. Imagine Geddy Lee or Chris Squire getting it on with a soundguy at a venue they never played. "Hey, Getty. I'm just gonna DI you straight off your bass." POST EQ everytime, either DI or mic. My tone is my business, not the sound guy's. It's the job of the sound guy to fit my tone in the mix. Just like a guitard, tone comes from technique, picks/instrument and amp/speakers. Train the sound guys right for those of us who actually do care about our tone getting to the audience. I agree with your sentiment entirely, but go about it a different way. Take a look at what I posted above and tell me if/where I am full of {censored}. Like you, I'm always looking for the best way to get my band's sound to the audience. I'm just never positive I've found the "best" way. (The obvious answer being there is no best way.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mudbass Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 On a side note, this was probably the first time I couldn't hear myself clearly on stage from my rig. We were not that loud either. It was frustrating as I had to rely on listening to the mains to hear myself. There's the problem with running straight DI. You're totally at the mercy of your stage monitors and the quality of stage mix which the sound guy can not hear from the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted December 2, 2007 Members Share Posted December 2, 2007 I never had problems with the DI on my GK. And I've heard only good things about the DI on the ABM so we shall see at the next gig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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