Are Rancid & Social Distortion considered punk?

[Thumper]

They are both considered punk by everyone except for punks. Real punks don't consider bands like that punk because they don't fit with the punk dogma: If it's popular then it must be bad.

+1. There was a great piece in The Onion a while back...

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38773

[REMUS]

Your post makes no sense. And I wasn't targeting you but rather a whole generation of people who think like you..it just so happens you think like you. Dan

I mean a few people agree with what i'm saying, but he says it makes no sense and has taken a few chips out of me for no reason when he could of made this an interesting discussion... I don't think i prevoked him... as though he is some sort of a god of punk and i'm committing blasphemy.

[Renfield]

I'm still waiting on an explaination on this post: I mean a few people agree with what i'm saying, but he says it makes no sense and has taken a few chips out of me for no reason when he could of made this an interesting discussion... I don't think i prevoked him... as though he is some sort of a god of punk and i'm committing blasphemy.

I'll give you that much. But IMO at least, I didn't perceive that one comment as specifically directed at you in the slightest.

[REMUS]

I guess, hes just pissed me off thats all.

 

nvm anyway

[GreaserMatt]

Everyone has a different "view/idea/opinion/etc" of 'what punk is'. I see this argument all the time... everyone just drink beer! LOL

[BEAD]

Arguing about whether punk is this band or that band = not punk.

You guys should all be ashamed.

I'm deducting p.r. points from everyone in the class.

[willsellout]

Thanks, I was getting pissed with having no one back me up as though I was talking {censored}, I might go post a link on azpunk.com to this thread and see what they say...

 

 

you are talking {censored}..go post a link to a thousand punk forums and you still won't have an arguement based on your own thoughts/experiences/conclusions. You listen to some albums, you read some articles and you want to come here and spout off at the mouth about it and when I tell you are full of {censored}, you get pissed at me?

 

I appreciate the fact that you don't know anything about punk and that the punkest thing that's ever happenned to you is wikipedia, but don't come here expecting me to go along with it. I'm no punk guru but at least I've seen the real thing. I wasn't there in the beginning but I know the watered down version of punk rock when I see it and you are definitely wet behind the ears.

 

 

There's your answer and my arguement. Take it for what it's worth.

 

 

Dan

[REMUS]

I'm really not going to get into one of these ridiculous quoting wars, they always end up being a futile endeavour, because participants always twist everything into a bias slant in favour of their argument rather than focus on a positive outcome... it's simply always about beating your opponent into submission factually, intellectually... but usually just flaming indiscriminately, like you

 

I would have been prepared to debate this with you if you had conceded any points or at least had a little empathy, even the guys on AZpunk agree with me and a few people do here... and your telling me I don't have my own mind about such matters because I quoted wikipedia and used referance points? No, i'm just not willing to have a heated debate over the Internet with you, because you aren't being rational or lucid... you seem to be just stamping your feet like some big angry child at me and expecting me to take your word for it, when all i'm really doing is laughing at someone who is supposed to be an adult

 

So no, i'm not going to add to any angst on the forum, and no i'm not trying to take the high ground. I would just rather get along and forget this sorry and sad affair, please, because i've got nothing to prove to you.

 

EDIT: There is the AZpunk thread if you want to have a gander:

 

http://www.azpunk.com/tforum/viewtopic.php?TopicID=70114

[guitargod0dmw]

Arguing about whether punk is this band or that band = not punk. You guys should all be ashamed. I'm deducting p.r. points from everyone in the class.

 

 

HA! I really can't believe this thread is still going! I remember when I first started posting threads, nobody would respond...now they always go into these multi page debates.

[REMUS]

 

well what do you think of this monster you have created then

 

it's always the way, people have to get to know you I guess, before they are willing to share opinion openly

[theradvocate]

always thought social D was
2 parts rock
1 part rockabilly
1 part punk

as for punk it definitely has a sound but it is somewhat like emo in that what many consider punk now sounds very little like what punk was ... rancid I am on the fence about in terms of a traditional punk sound but punk is probably where most would put them if they had to squeeze it into a section at a record store ...

[willsellout]

I've got nothing to prove to you

First and foremost, thats the punkest thing you've said yet..kudos!

Now,
I didn't flame you. You posted an obnoxious and wordy reply to 78Pbass and that's when I called you on your posts.

I'm still not flaming you nor am I "stomping my feet". I feel I posted a pretty decent arguement for you not knowing {censored} about {censored} and targeted your inability to post anything original or of your own thought process.

But like I said, I've never claimed to be some punk guru, although I lived and breathed punk and hardcore for a long time and feel adequately experience enough to talk about it. At least I can post my own ideas about the subject instead of turning to an online nerdery to cut and paste my thoughts on a subject I obviously don't know anything about.

Once again, I'm not flaming you but you posted conficting things and I pointed them out. You quoted everything, but posted nothing of your real thoughts/ideas about anything. I do find it funny that you can't express yourself and firmly believe it's because you don't know what your talking about. I don't really care whether you posted this on another internet forum or not as I actually don't give a {censored}.

But you doing so just proves my point; that once again you turn to someone else to defend your lack of individuality.

Now as far as my thoughts on SD and Rancid? Both are/were punk for one reason:
They have/had been playing the same kind of music for 20+ years. They still make/made music with integrity and without compromising themselves. They've grown as artists but they haven't gone so far as to forget where they came from. That can't be said for some of the most known Punk bands of all time..perfect example = The Sex Pistols.

This alone is an achievement and puts them in the punk category in my book. As far as punk "rock" music...that's pretty subjective to personal opinion..but I think so.



Dan

[y-o-y]

Someone please educate me...I am woefully ignorant of all things punk: is this thread punk or not?

[guitargod0dmw]

Someone please educate me...I am woefully ignorant of all things punk: is this thread punk or not?

DAMNIT!!! You need to pay attention better!!!

[REMUS]

First and foremost, thats the punkest thing you've said yet..kudos! Now, I didn't flame you. You posted an obnoxious and wordy reply to 78Pbass and that's when I called you on your posts. I'm still not flaming you nor am I "stomping my feet". I feel I posted a pretty decent arguement for you not knowing {censored} about {censored} and targeted your inability to post anything original or of your own thought process. But like I said, I've never claimed to be some punk guru, although I lived and breathed punk and hardcore for a long time and feel adequately experience enough to talk about it. At least I can post my own ideas about the subject instead of turning to an online nerdery to cut and paste my thoughts on a subject I obviously don't know anything about. Once again, I'm not flaming you but you posted conflicting things and I pointed them out. You quoted everything, but posted nothing of your real thoughts/ideas about anything. I do find it funny that you can't express yourself and firmly believe it's because you don't know what your talking about. I don't really care whether you posted this on another internet forum or not as I actually don't give a {censored}. But you doing so just proves my point; that once again you turn to someone else to defend your lack of individuality. Now as far as my thoughts on SD and Rancid? Both are/were punk for one reason: They have/had been playing the same kind of music for 20+ years. They still make/made music with integrity and without compromising themselves. They've grown as artists but they haven't gone so far as to forget where they came from. That can't be said for some of the most known Punk bands of all time..perfect example = The Sex Pistols. This alone is an achievement and puts them in the punk category in my book. As far as punk "rock" music ...that's pretty subjective to personal opinion..but I think so. Dan

 

*yawn*

 

I cant be arsed with putting to much energy into conflict at the moment, simply put, i've had far to much of it in my life of late and the last thing I want to do is enter into another pointless argument with you.

 

Because I don't really care about proving my punk credentials, if indeed I have obtained any. I like the music, I like playing it and I like going to punk gigs.

 

Yeah I like well founded aggression, yeah I like aggressive punk.

 

Your still towing your line, calling me some sort of idiot... basically... I don't mind answering questions, intelligible questions, on what I think about the topic if you would be so bold as to?

 

I stand on my own two feet, dress how I like, do what I want and call people on their bull{censored}.

 

So to conclude, i'm very apathetic about doing anything else other than calling you on your bull{censored} attitude to me, simple as. I won't prove myself to you unless you are bringing something to the table, where I might learn or be better off, until then i'll keep dismissing your insulting posts in a rather aloof manner...

 

 

Simple fact is, if i'm talking so much {censored} and using nerdy sources, why do I have people agreeing with me?

 

Or is your entire problem with me that i'm not using punk mannerisms

 

I realise this is just the internet, but your telling me that if someone spoke to you like your talking to me... you wouldn't want to knock them out? This is however the internet, so i'm not going to start with stupid idle threats like that, but I would just like to convey my feelings on the matter. I'm quite surprised that you want to put so much time and effort into falling out with me

 

Because you are certainly not skooling me in punk, maybe on how to be an e-bastage

[willsellout]

Because I don't really care about proving my punk credentials, if indeed I have obtained any. I like the music, I like playing it and I like going to punk gigs.

I never said you had to prove anything to me or anyone else.

 

Yeah I like well founded aggression, yeah I like aggressive punk.

Great, but calling bands not punk because they don't play that way is what got my attention.

 

Your still towing your line, calling me some sort of idiot... basically... I don't mind answering questions, intelligible questions, on what I think about the topic if you would be so bold as to?

 

I'm not calling you an idiot, I'm saying with your lack of original posts (your own words) you make out to be someone who has no ideas all his own but came off as an uppity snob with 78Pbass..as if you knew something he didn't.

 

I stand on my own two feet, dress how I like, do what I want and call people on their bull{censored}.

 

Good for you..but what bull{censored} are you calling me on? I haven't said anything that you have to call bull{censored} on. Seriously, show me what I posted that's off line?

 

Simple fact is, if i'm talking so much {censored} and using nerdy sources, why do I have people agreeing with me?

Which people are aggreeing with you exactly?

 

Or is your entire problem with me that i'm not using punk mannerisms

 

I don't have a problem with you..just your attitude on this thread..punk has nothing to do with it..I'm not a punk, I've been out of the scene for a few years now so I don't really care about punk mannerisms...I'm not even sure I know what you mean by that.

 

 

I realise this is just the internet, but your telling me that if someone spoke to you like your talking to me... you wouldn't want to knock them out?

Nope..I'm not much of a fighter. I've been verbally spanked before by KK..not once did I ever feel like reverting to violence. In all the instances I was off base. Of course I don't blame you if you wanted to try, I'm not as polished as he is.

 

This is however the internet, so i'm not going to start with stupid idle threats like that,

 

But you just did...didn't you?

 

but I would just like to convey my feelings on the matter. I'm quite surprised that you want to put so much time and effort into falling out with me

 

It doesn't take much time to reply to you and I don't really care about falling out with anyone..if it happens it happens.

 

Because you are certainly not skooling me in punk, maybe on how to be an e-bastage

 

I'm not trying to school you on punk..rather bring to light your lack of independant thought on the subject. I'm not anyone to school anyone on punk. I'm the farthest thing from it. What punk was is not what punk is today and I'm out of the loop. I attend the local shows when there are any but they are few and far between. Me being a bastage is fine with me...me and C7 can hang out;)

 

 

Dan

[bassgirl9]

Arguing about whether punk is this band or that band = not punk. You guys should all be ashamed. I'm deducting p.r. points from everyone in the class.

 

Ah ha ha! You're awesome.

 

Personally, I dont care what they are, I'm in love with both... hey maybe they're rockabilly

[REMUS]

Here, Hearafter and GreaserMatt, I think Renfield might of as well but I cba to to sift through the thread and nothing2 on azpunk.

 

Offline? You only need to reference the amount of times you told me I was talking {censored}, over exaggeration like "plagiarizing Wikipedia like it was the word of god" I neither plagiarized it nor said it referred to it as a hard cold 100% bonafide.

 

You just used Renfields post as a kicker to have a jab at me for posting a wikipedia article, I just posted it for others to read. It's not like I based an analytical argument based upon it, I just posted the article.

 

You took exception and rattled off a withering hail of contempt, simple as that Dan. I mean guitargod referenced wikipedia and nothing was said, and for good reason.

 

All I have ever said is that I don't consider SD punk rock apart from their emo/nihilist style and explained my belief, I do consider Mike a punk from what i've read about him.

 

And you manage to pull this from it:

 

"Not necessarily your generation, although your age group does tend to get caught up in the "sell out" mentality. Lets all bash Green Day because they make money for what they do..forget the fact that they released an incredible album that directly attacks the government and the war on a massive scale. You tell me something more punk than that? Some suburban twat singing to 30 suburban middle class kids in a tiny club does nothing for anyone but a punk band touring worldwide spreading the very idea of punk does."

 

I mean wtf am I suppose to reply to that? I don't even know what i'm defending myself against

[willsellout]

Here, Hearafter and GreaserMatt, I think Renfield might of as well but I cba to to sift through the thread and nothing2 on azpunk.

Hereafter said the same thing I did.."The whole Wikipedia thing is pretty true... if your idea of punk is what Wiki says, then you'll never actually know what punk is."
This is what I have a problem with...your complete lack of individuality about punk. You haven't posted anything of your own thoughts..but posted other peoples thoughts.

The arguement about Social Distortion is moot because it's all relative. They make the same music now that they did when they started..it's more polished now but it's the same tempo and same lyrics..same everything, the only thing that's changed are people's view of what punk should be. But it was punk back then so I think it's punk now IMO. It's not the music, it's the attitude.

Offline? You only need to reference the amount of times you told me I was talking {censored}, over exaggeration like "plagiarizing Wikipedia like it was the word of god" I neither plagiarized it nor said it referred to it as a hard cold 100% bonafide.

I wasn't out of line with telling you that you were talking {censored}. Just because I say you are talking {censored} doesn't make me wrong. This is you talking plenty O' {censored}:

"That is a rather romantic notion... I don't feel that is the case because no belief, culture or system has exclusive and single minded collective thought processes, prehaps in some cases your definition has relevance or is in-fact correct.... but is CERTAINLY not relivant the majority of punk, but that is what most bands have to do anyway in reguard to "paving your own road, doing it your way".

What gives you the right to talk down to him like that? What do you know about what is and isn't relevant to the majority of punk? You speak as if you are the punk guru.

You just used Renfields post as a kicker to have a jab at me for posting a wikipedia article, I just posted it for others to read. It's not like I based an analytical argument based upon it, I just posted the article.

I didn't use anyone's post but yours to have a jab at you. My point is that you post everyone else's words and thoughts instead of quantifying your own.

You took exception and rattled off a withering hail of contempt, simple as that Dan. I mean guitargod referenced wikipedia and nothing was said, and for good reason.

Contempt implies I don't like you...I have no feelings either way. And Guitargod didn't use Wiki to explain that which he did not know..he posted it to clarify the Billy Joe Armstrong comment he made. That is why he didn't get {censored} for it...also he seems to have an actual opinion on Punk.

All I have ever said is that I don't consider SD punk rock apart from their emo/nihilist style and explained my belief, I do consider Mike a punk from what i've read about him.

Nihilist?!? WTF? Seriously..maybe you need to read the definition of that term..how about we use old faithful Wiki:
Nihilism-is a philosophical position which argues that Being, especially past and current human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value.

How do SD fall into that category? Of course Emo, they could be described using that for sure..although they are more Rockabilly than anything.

And you manage to pull this from it: "Not necessarily your generation, although your age group does tend to get caught up in the "sell out" mentality. Lets all bash Green Day because they make money for what they do..forget the fact that they released an incredible album that directly attacks the government and the war on a massive scale. You tell me something more punk than that? Some suburban twat singing to 30 suburban middle class kids in a tiny club does nothing for anyone but a punk band touring worldwide spreading the very idea of punk does." I mean wtf am I suppose to reply to that? I don't even know what i'm defending myself against

That's because it's an arguement and a point that I feel to be true. There is no need to defend as it's just my opinion..you should reply what you think of it. If you have a differing opinion post it, otherwise move on. Also,that comment wasn't directed at you, but the generation of kids calling Green Day sellouts because they make a living off of music. Some call them emo, or pop punk but there is no doubt that they have their place in punk history and they do more for punk rock ideology than a lot of other bands claiming to be punk.



Dan

[Hearafter]

I just watched American Idiot... it was pretty cool.

[willsellout]

I just watched American Idiot... it was pretty cool.

That is one of the punkest albums out there. Political and angry...and not to mention it's a {censored}ing sick album.


Dan

[willsellout]

You know what...I was a dick in my responses to you and I didn't need to be. The thing that irritated me was simply the way you posted your reply to 78Pbass. This thread shouldn't be this arguementative nor should it have been a pissing contest.

Your stance is that Social Distortion doesn't sound punk. That is a perfectly reasonable statement. MY stance is that because they were a part of the very beginnings of the american punk/hardcore movement that they are grandfathered in. I also believe that because they have made music since the late 70's and still remain a band with integrity that it qualifies them as punk rockers..not punk rock as it is known nowadays though...thenagain what is punk rock nowadays?

Dan

[78pbass]

Thanks Dan. I don't feel the need to explain anything more to this dude. I konw what I know, I know who I know and guys like this are the ones that'd come to our shows, pay to get in to tell us how not-punk we were.

 

Only this time, I dont have to kick his ass on principle.

[REMUS]

You know what...I was a dick in my responses to you and I didn't need to be. The thing that irritated me was simply the way you posted your reply to 78Pbass. This thread shouldn't be this arguementative nor should it have been a pissing contest. Your stance is that Social Distortion doesn't sound punk. That is a perfectly reasonable statement. MY stance is that because they were a part of the very beginnings of the american punk/hardcore movement that they are grandfathered in. I also believe that because they have made music since the late 70's and still remain a band with integrity that it qualifies them as punk rockers..not punk rock as it is known nowadays though...thenagain what is punk rock nowadays? Dan

 

It's cool, I know how things get on the net and since it was you I wasn't going to let it get anywhere near out of control by whining anymore than I was, I just guessed you might be going through some {censored} and was venting.

 

I guess I should apologize to 78pbass, it is a pet peave of mine because:

 

I despise how people romanticize the old skool punk, in the UK at least it was complete working class based rebellion against the state and the middle/upper class, the music was a by product of the discontent and hate that spilled over. One of my best friends mother used to sit us down and tell us stories about her and her friends, she was a real anarchist back in the day, she has loads of photos of her and her friends and we got lots of lols out of her bin bag dresses (worst attempt at punk fashion rejection i've ever seen lol) we are also quite lucky around here in that we have a good punk scene made up of some other really old school mofos as well as, unfortunately, some white power kinda screwdriveresque skin heads, but I get along with them so it's okish.

 

He also said that bad brains were hardcore, as if they weren't punk or something, which got up my nose a bit!

 

So i'm quite up on what makes a person punk I guess, but like you I wouldn't ever consider myself a punk, hell i'm more of an emo than anything nowadays

 

And sorry for being a wanker 78pbass

[Hearafter]

Ness is a cool cat. I met him, John, Chuck, and Dennis (R.I.P), after a show in Phoenix in '96. He talked to everyone, and gave them his undivided attention. Talked about his '56 Caddy, prison, his dead friends... down to earth for sure. One thing's for certain, if his music isn't punk, his life sure was (still is?).
Got autographs, one of John's pics, and some good stories.

Worst thing about SD... tickets are now $30, and after Ticketmaster gets done raping you, they're closer to $40. Ouch.

: Aww, you guys kissed and made up... that's not very punk.