Moderators ThudMaker Posted January 4, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2008 Does anyone have any experience or opinion on ultralight tuning machines? Will they significantly lighten the load on a 5 string? Which are lighter? Hipshots or Schallers? Any other brands I'm missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitargod0dmw Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 I've got the Hipshot Ultralites on my Modulus. They are significantly lighter than the stock Gotoh that were on it. I'm not a fan of Schaller anything really, so I can't comment on those. They did make the bass a little lighter, but nothing crazy. I could feel the difference at first though. Now...after the honeymoon is over...it's still heavy! They are really nice tuners though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jazz Ad Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 Sperzel are by far the lightest and they rock. I have them on all my basses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitargod0dmw Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 Sperzel are by far the lightest and they rock. I have them on all my basses. I really REALLY like Sperzel too. I have them on a few guitars. Regular guitars that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted January 4, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2008 Sperzels are lighter than either the Hipshot Ultralights or the Schaller lightweight offerings? Also, any pics of the Sperzels? I can't find a pic anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 That won't make much difference in either the overall weight of the bass or the balance/neck dive factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jasper383 Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 Sperzels are really light. They make a big deal over the locking mechanism. However, I found that in order to get the break angle over the nut right, I still had to wrap the string several times around the post, defeating the advantage of the lock. Gotoh GB7 tuners are light, and very inexpensive. I have put them on several basses that had the regular Fender vintage style tuners, and noticed a difference in neck dive. A couple ounces way out there does matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jazz Ad Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 It depends on the bass. If it was built with a proper headstock breaking angle or a string tree, you don't need to wrap anything. If you use them on a typical Fender headstock, you will get the old A string rattling issue. Sperzel make low profile tuners that handle the issue just fine but they're hard to get by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted January 4, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2008 It depends on the bass. If it was built with a proper headstock breaking angle or a string tree, you don't need to wrap anything. If you use them on a typical Fender headstock, you will get the old A string rattling issue. IMO that's the absolute worst aspect of the Fender design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jazz Ad Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 Yeah. It's been going on since they first came out and even high end builders like Sadowsky didn't bother solving the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted January 4, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2008 Yeah. It's been going on since they first came out and even high end builders like Sadowsky didn't bother solving the issue. We both know it is because of what the consumers will buy and not what the luthiers want to build. Roger Sadowsky knows very well that an angled headstock is superior in nearly every respect, but if he used one he'd lose sales from all of the traditionalists that don't understand the advantage of evolving designs. "I'll go buy a Lakland/Celinder/A-C/etc. since it looks more like a Fender." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jazz Ad Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 A minor adjustement could take care of it and wouldn't change the looks.Something like making the headstock a bit thinner, tuners with a lower profile or installed nearer from the nut to get a sharper angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 We both know it is because of what the consumers will buy and not what the luthiers want to build. Roger Sadowsky knows very well that an angled headstock is superior in nearly every respect, but if he used one he'd lose sales from all of the traditionalists that don't understand the advantage of evolving designs. "I'll go buy a Lakland/Celinder/A-C/etc. since it looks more like a Fender." You've just summed up my whole view of Fender and bass buyers. The buyers are the main cause for 99% of basses still being of the stone age variety. On a related note, I just found out that Bud LeCompte has now gone to an angled headstock an nearly all of his designs. Mine have his flat headstock, and I still need to make sure I leave enough wraps to keep from buzzing. I'm tempted to put on a retainer bar, but if he found out I defiled his work I'd be cut off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jazz Ad Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 Here's how Dingwall took care of the issue. Flat headstock with a lower profile and recessed tuners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted January 4, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2008 Here's how Dingwall took care of the issue. Flat headstock with a lower profile and recessed tuners. Nice design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted January 4, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2008 You've just summed up my whole view of Fender and bass buyers. The buyers are the main cause for 99% of basses still being of the stone age variety. On a related note, I just found out that Bud LeCompte has now gone to an angled headstock an nearly all of his designs. Mine have his flat headstock, and I still need to make sure I leave enough wraps to keep from buzzing. I'm tempted to put on a retainer bar, but if he found out I defiled his work I'd be cut off... I was channeling you for that mini-rant. Obviously if you look at my basses, I am not pushing the envelope in design... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted January 4, 2008 Author Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2008 Obviously if you look at my basses, I am not pushing the envelope in design... Neither am I. I think basses that push the envelope ought to have 4 legs and a shelf underneath for books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 I was channeling you for that mini-rant. Obviously if you look at my basses, I am not pushing the envelope in design... Ha ha! Actually I'd hardly say that angled headstocks are even remotely close to pushing the envelope. They've know for like, 100's of years that they are superior. Leo just didn't seem to understand that little design fact though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ender_rpm Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 IIRC, 6 string sperzels have staggerred post heights for just this reason. Duno about bass ones, but I swear by them on my 'lectric geetars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dabbler Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 Ha ha! Actually I'd hardly say that angled headstocks are even remotely close to pushing the envelope. They've know for like, 100's of years that they are superior. Leo just didn't seem to understand that little design fact though... I'm not saying that the fender design is the best, but Leo was a practical man, and his design is easily made with a single piece of wood. And it is strong, fewer broken headstock stories than another mfr who tried to do angled headstock necks out of a single piece of wood. I haven't been playing bass that long (3 years) but with 2 wraps of my A string around the post, I have no idea what the rattling A string phenomenon is. Exactly when does it rattle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super Bass Posted January 4, 2008 Members Share Posted January 4, 2008 Status also did some re-designing to solve this problem on their T-bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roger in the sky Posted January 5, 2008 Members Share Posted January 5, 2008 eeeeeeeewwwwwww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted January 5, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 5, 2008 I'm not saying that the fender design is the best, but Leo was a practical man, and his design is easily made with a single piece of wood. And it is strong, fewer broken headstock stories than another mfr who tried to do angled headstock necks out of a single piece of wood.I haven't been playing bass that long (3 years) but with 2 wraps of my A string around the post, I have no idea what the rattling A string phenomenon is. Exactly when does it rattle? Strings rattle mostly when there is not a large enough break angle on the headstock side of the nut. The lack of break angle presents a problem because there is too little downward force holding the string in place in the slot. They will also rattle if the nut slots were filed for larger gauges or have worn such that they no longer provide a snug fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dabbler Posted January 5, 2008 Members Share Posted January 5, 2008 Strings rattle mostly when there is not a large enough break angle on the headstock side of the nut. The lack of break angle presents a problem because there is too little downward force holding the string in place in the slot. They will also rattle if the nut slots were filed for larger gauges or have worn such that they no longer provide a snug fit. I guess, I wasn't complete in my question, I understand the general mechanics of when strings rattle. What I meant was since I have never experienced this on my fender style headstocks when I have 2 wraps on the post, what exactly are people who HAVE experienced it doing to/with the string when it rattles? In hindsight, I probably should also have asked, how many wraps do they give the string. But anyways, it appears to me that if you begin wraping the post midway and do 2 wraps, there won't be any issues. This, at least has been my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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