Members dravenzouk Posted January 19, 2008 Members Share Posted January 19, 2008 [YOUTUBE]U0kJHQpvgB8[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dravenzouk Posted January 19, 2008 Members Share Posted January 19, 2008 Most liberals feel as though they're being persecuted, so it stands to reason why liberals think he's one of them. Liberals also consider themselves to be the "kind" and "giving" side of the political spectrum, but somehow I think Jesus would have been against taking what someone had worked very hard for, and giving it to people that weren't willing to work as hard as that man. Remember that one of the commandments is "thou shalt not steal." Jesus wouldn't be down with forced wealth redistribution for the sake of political gain. Whenever I see that bumper sticker I wonder when the last time the person driving the car asked Jesus for forgiveness, or if they just considered themselves so righteous that they don't need to bother. C7 Wow, you just gave me a great idea. I think I'm going to go into your house, steal all your money, (maybe covet your white women while I'm at it), and then give it all to a bunch of welfare deadbeats. Then I'm gonna ask Jesus to forgive me. On second thought, asking Jesus is for wussies. I'm going to TELL him to give me what I deserve, man. I work hard for it. I'll be like, "Dude, you BETTER be hooking me up with the forgiveness bitch, or I'll kick your ass!!" If he doesn't pay up, I'll show him, I've got plenty of nails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted January 19, 2008 Moderators Share Posted January 19, 2008 I am all about pro abortion. If the mom doesn't want the kid, I don't want her to be a mom. I don't believe in souls or afterlives or any other mythology. As such, the only sadness I see in death is the loss to the living people that were attached to or supported by the dead. In the case of a fetus, the only realistic attachment is the mom and dad. If they are down with terminating, so am I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DevilRaysFan Posted January 19, 2008 Members Share Posted January 19, 2008 I am all about pro abortion. If the mom doesn't want the kid, I don't want her to be a mom. I don't believe in souls or afterlives or any other mythology. As such, the only sadness I see in death is the loss to the living people that were attached to or supported by the dead. In the case of a fetus, the only realistic attachment is the mom and dad. If they are down with terminating, so am I. I'm an agnostic -- borderline athiest -- and your view is one of the reasons I try to steer clear of religious threads, because I try to explain my point of view instead of bashing religion (which I do not do)..... Headlines of the world through my eyes look like this: "11 Radicals of The Easter Bunny bomb Mosque""Thousands throng to see the Tooth Fairy giver sermon""Jihad launched by Church of the Great Pumpkin causes food shortage in that part of country" Sounds silly, don't it? Well, insert religion of choice in the italics and thats how I see things: no different for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tom_s252 Posted January 19, 2008 Members Share Posted January 19, 2008 How do you know? Where do you draw the line? when is it a life and not an embryo?That's the question isn't it? If you can't definitively tell me exactly, to the second, when it is a human being and no longer just a mass of cells (which we all are btw), if you can't tell me the exact moment it becomes sentient, then I would say err on the side of the life that we know is there and not kill it.If you can argue with that, I would love to hear it.In addition, just because you can't prove it's sentient doesn't mean it doesn't have a life force or soul. Considering you can't quantify that or prove or disprove the existence of that life force or sould or sentient prescence or whatever you want to call it, you know it's there. You can feel it in yourself but there is no physical evidence of it whatsoever. How do you know it's any different in a 4 week old unborn child?If you can argue with that, I would love to hear it. I cannot tell you to the second. I have not claimed that I can. I would argue that I don't need to know when this happens to argue that the ethical situation changes when it occurs. I am trying to argue in the abstract, to say that there is a point where a change occurs. Equally, I'm quite sure that there are doctors who do know the answer; as I said before, it's their job to define that, not mine. I am a rationalist, and not in the habit of discussing "life forces" or "souls" or anything else that cannot be quantified. As far as I can see, if a being is not yet sufficiently developed to experience anything, then it can't have any of those things. Does a horse have a soul? A dog? A mouse? A snail? An amoeba? Somewhere down that rough line of cognitive ability, I reckon you'll say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Perfessor Posted January 19, 2008 Members Share Posted January 19, 2008 Most liberals feel as though they're being persecuted, so it stands to reason why liberals think he's one of them. Liberals also consider themselves to be the "kind" and "giving" side of the political spectrum, but somehow I think Jesus would have been against taking what someone had worked very hard for, and giving it to people that weren't willing to work as hard as that man. Remember that one of the commandments is "thou shalt not steal." Jesus wouldn't be down with forced wealth redistribution for the sake of political gain. Whenever I see that bumper sticker I wonder when the last time the person driving the car asked Jesus for forgiveness, or if they just considered themselves so righteous that they don't need to bother. C7 Oh geez you took the bait. The best way to ignore a troll is use your ignore list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members One Bad Monkey Posted January 19, 2008 Members Share Posted January 19, 2008 I've taken it as a personal mission to toughen up my 10 year old nephew. He's being raised by his mom, who I will say is a hard ass when it comes to discipline, but he doesn't do normal "boy" things; I found out a few months ago that the poor kid doesn't know how to ride a bike because his {censored} ass father wont teach him. So his mom's boyfriend and I have been taking him snowboarding, and not letting him get butthurt when he falls. Honestly, I think he WANTS influences like that, because he rises to the challenges we present him. This summer, it's going to be mountain biking, fishing, and shooting guns. When he's a little bigger, dirt bikes and snowmobiles. I also encouraged him to cut a red star out of construction paper and give it to his teacher, but his mom nixed that idea. C7 You hit a major point, and I think that's the lack of responsibility that many people my age are so quick to show. Take my wife's friend. Her husband just quit his job of 12 years because it was too stressful. Let's also add to the fact that he didn't have another job lined up and his wife doesn't work because she's taking care of their 6 month old son. So, he sits around and drinks beer all day, saying "I have no stress at all" while she filled out paperwork for a bridge card. Kicker is that we went to a friends' birthday party last night (at a restaurant) and there they are, running up a huge tab. All I remember is my grandpa, a stereotypical 50's guy who was in WWII, came home to raise a family and spend his life working at Chrysler. I asked him once if he liked it, and he said he hated every single second working. When I asked him how he could do it, he simply said "I'd go through hell and back for my family, so I figure working at Chrysler's gotta be easier than that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted January 19, 2008 Members Share Posted January 19, 2008 I cannot tell you to the second. I have not claimed that I can. I would argue that I don't need to know when this happens to argue that the ethical situation changes when it occurs. I am trying to argue in the abstract, to say that there is a point where a change occurs. Equally, I'm quite sure that there are doctors who do know the answer; as I said before, it's their job to define that, not mine.I am a rationalist, and not in the habit of discussing "life forces" or "souls" or anything else that cannot be quantified. As far as I can see, if a being is not yet sufficiently developed to experience anything, then it can't have any of those things. Does a horse have a soul? A dog? A mouse? A snail? An amoeba? Somewhere down that rough line of cognitive ability, I reckon you'll say no. Then I suggest you see KK's post regarding human development. And while you may not be able to "quantify" your sould or life force or whatever you wish to call it, you are aware of it and it does exist. It's what makes you who you are. Your "sentience" or whatever you wanna call it. and of course you would rather argue the abstract. By treating that unborn child as an abstraction rather than a human being, it's much easier to justify killing it. Oh, and doctors do know: Brain waves are recordable at 40 days. At 7-8 weeks after conception, the embryo bears the familiar external features and all internal organs of an adult; its length is about 1-1/2 inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted January 19, 2008 Members Share Posted January 19, 2008 I am all about pro abortion. If the mom doesn't want the kid, I don't want her to be a mom. I don't believe in souls or afterlives or any other mythology. As such, the only sadness I see in death is the loss to the living people that were attached to or supported by the dead. In the case of a fetus, the only realistic attachment is the mom and dad. If they are down with terminating, so am I. SO if a mom doesn't want to be a mom, say at 6 months....she should just be able to kill her kid too then? And I understand that you don't belive in souls or an afterlife. No problem with that. But there is an energy (which I referred to as a life force) insside every one of us. We all know it and feel it. It's what makes us a sentient being. Do you think that energy isn't there a month or two after conception? Because that is a living being. Look at it from a purely scientific viewpoint then. It is still a living being, genetically differentiated from the mother, that just happens to be using her as a host. It is still a human being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted January 19, 2008 Members Share Posted January 19, 2008 I am all about pro abortion. If the mom doesn't want the kid, I don't want her to be a mom. Agreed, if a mom doesn't want the kid, I don't want her to be a mom either... Which is why it's a great thing that adoption exists and that mother can give her kid to people who want nothing more than to be parents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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