How's that free healthcare workin' for ya?

[lug]

Again, that's just not how it works. The real world works a little differently from what you see in movies by Michael Moore or whatever. If a patient needs care (especially urgent care) they get it...regardless of cost and/or who is paying. It really is just that simple. The reason you hear about uninsured people languishing in emergency rooms is because they have no regular physician so they show up to the ER with minor complaints. If you show up at the ER with a non-emergent (let alone non-urgent) complaint, you will be put in the back of the line. That's how triage works. You bring patients into the ER in the order of seriousness and urgency of their condition. Economics has nothing to do with it. Again, I can't really blame you guys for having these misconceptions since medical care has turned into such a hot-button political issue. Sure, medicine in the US can be improved. But it's hardly anywhere NEAR as bad as what certain left-wing extremists would have you believe. Take it from someone who has worked both in Canada and the US...the system in Canada is not exactly the medical utopia Michael Moore portrays it to be. Do your own research rather than relying on being spoon-fed by propagandists.

 

 

Yep. Mrs. Lug is an Labor and Delivery nurse and almost 50% of her patients are illegal immigrants or otherwise uninsured. The only difference in their treatment is since most have no prenatal care, they don't get an epidural and some of the docs won't order and epidural even if they do have prenatal info. That's it.

[Jugghaid]

Thanks. It's nice to have someone who knows what he/she is talking about. I would assume a lot of hospitals write off quite a bit of money due to bankruptcy. I've heard from a couple places that as long as you make "good faith" payments on a medical bill, they won't send you to collections or take you to court. For example, let's say you have a $100,000 medical bill but no money to pay it, so you just start sending the hospital twenty bucks a month to pay it off. Apparently, according to this questionable advice, they just have to take your payments and can't do anything about it. Is that true? Of course, people are awash with bad/incorrect financial advice, so it wouldn't surprise me if it was BS. .

It's absolute BS. Not an iota of truth in it. I hear it a lot. There's a TON of bad information out there and this is one of the most common. I've personally had thousands of people who thought this sued and their wages attached, liens put on their homes, bank accounts levied, etc.

Here's the other thing. If I get a judgment against someone and place a judgment lien on the property and THEN they file for bankruptcy, the lien does not go away. I can not execute further on the judgment, but the lien stays in place. When they sell or refinance, I still get paid.

[Fiery Furnace]

Why do Americans complain about our health care system more than those of us actually eligible for coverage under it? Frankly if you ask me the HMO system in the US is nothing to be proud of. We may be short doctors, but at least our doctors aren't quitting practice because their malpractice insurance is more than half of their earnings due to frivolous medicolegal lawyers chasing ambulances. Everyone except the HMO loses. Healthcare and for-profit business shouldn't mix, IMO. It's not perfect and the standard of care is not equal everywhere(like the article points out), but then, in a paid system, it isn't either unless you can cough up full price. If you're happy with the system in place where you are, stay there. I don't disagree that major restructuring is required in the Canadian healthcare system, but I'm not about to jump on the private healthcare bandwagon.

 

 

Well said.

[mrblockofcheese]

If you think private operations generate less administrative staff and paperfilling, you are sadly mistaken.

 

 

oh, how is that? and thats also a pretty good way to not address the point of my comment at all.

[ThudMaker]

If you think private operations generate less administrative staff and paperfilling, you are sadly mistaken.

Private organizations either make money or they are out of business. Unlike government bloating, private companies that perform well generally do not have significant administrative fat. However I would agree that the private operations currently do need administrative personnel and a great quantity of paperwork to satisfy HMOs as well as attorney's/courts for protection against lawsuits.

[mrblockofcheese]

However I would agree that the private operations currently do need administrative personnel and a great quantity of paperwork to satisfy HMOs as well as attorney's/courts for protection against lawsuits.

 

 

but again that is due to government meddling. and thanks for the back up

[Jazz Ad]

 

oh, how is that? and thats also a pretty good way to not address the point of my comment at all.

There was no other point in your comment.

You assume that doctors spend less time filling applications to get money from private companies. It simply isn't the case. They waste the same amount of time on stats and reports rather than taking care of patients.

 

You also assume that public organizations love wasting money. It isn't the case around here. They're generally not as efficient and optimized as private operations but they do not need to make profit which largely counterbalances it.

The French health system spends 7 % of its budget on operating costs. No private health company in the world can operate under 15 %.

[bikehorn]

but again that is due to government meddling.

Yeah, and we wouldn't want them of all people stepping in to prevent corporate bodies from exploiting people who need health care but whose insurance premiums would be past the stratosphere and in orbit with the international space station, now would we?

It's so easy for people who are born without any hereditary or congenital health problems to think only of themselves. It's the luck of the draw that you your health is good and that you weren't born with cerebral palsy, or cystic fibrosis or that you haven't developed something like multiple sclerosis. Where do your insurance rates go then, homie? Down? The same? I think not.

[ThudMaker]

but again that is due to government meddling. and thanks for the back up

Nope. Much of it is legal CYA.

[NeonVomit]

I dunno. Healthcare here is universal. Not perfect, but it works okay.

We pay for it through taxes. It's alright, there are private options available and they do okay as well.

Then again, we're a tiny country. I don't know how it would work somewhere as big as the US, which has the worlds third largest population or something like that.

[lug]

There was no other point in your comment. You assume that doctors spend less time filling applications to get money from private companies. It simply isn't the case. They waste the same amount of time on stats and reports rather than taking care of patients. You also assume that public organizations love wasting money. It isn't the case around here. They're generally not as efficient and optimized as private operations but they do not need to make profit which largely counterbalances it. The French health system spends 7 % of its budget on operating costs. No private health company in the world can operate under 15 %.

 

 

....steals french health care system to help offset coming National Health Care initiatives

[lug]

I dunno. Healthcare here is universal. Not perfect, but it works okay. We pay for it through taxes. It's alright, there are private options available and they do okay as well. Then again, we're a tiny country. I don't know how it would work somewhere as big as the US, which has the worlds third largest population or something like that.

The fact that you recognize that it actually has to be payed for means you have to turn in your liberal membership card.




I'm just kidding to all you knee-jerk liberals out there.

[J.]

Then again, we're a tiny country. I don't know how it would work somewhere as big as the US, which has the worlds third largest population or something like that.

 

 

That's my fear. If I was 100% certain that the United States could have a system of universal healthcare equal to or better than France, I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, that's probably the last thing that will happen. We have a huge population in comparison to most European nations, and more diversity. We also have a lot of leeches, which are a tremendous burden on any sort of entitlement program.

 

When is the last time the United States has enacted a new or expanded social program that's actually come in at or under its projected cost? When has one of our government programs worked better than the private sector equivalent? Remember what happened when demand went up for passports due to the new regulations about the Caribbean and (soon to be) Canadian border?

 

I also wish the title of this thread said "socialized" or "universal" instead of "free." Healthcare will always be paid for my someone. If we had universal healthcare, it would pretty much be free for low income people, but those with sizable incomes would be footing the bill.

[lecomptebass]

Yep. Mrs. Lug is an Labor and Delivery nurse and almost 50% of her patients are illegal immigrants or otherwise uninsured. The only difference in their treatment is since most have no prenatal care, they don't get an epidural and some of the docs won't order and epidural even if they do have prenatal info. That's it.

 

 

 

I have a friend who's wife is a delivery nurse and she says the same exact thing, except her numbers are below 50%. She says it's rare that they have a paying customer.

[J.]

I would assume it's much worse in border states for obvious reasons, but the illegals do have an impact on our healthcare costs. Does Texas have a problem with ERs and urgent care centers shutting down because they can no longer afford to operate?

[lug]

I have a friend who's wife is a delivery nurse and she says the same exact thing, except her numbers are below 50%. She says it's rare that they have a paying customer.

 

 

 

Mrs. Lug works at Bayshore in Pasadena which explains some of the high ratio.

[lug]

I would assume it's much worse in border states for obvious reasons, but the illegals do have an impact on our healthcare costs. Does Texas have a problem with ERs and urgent care centers shutting down because they can no longer afford to operate?

 

 

 

Houston has had a terrible problem with this. Probably the biggest downside to the Illegal Immigrant problem is the impact on the medical facilities.

[lecomptebass]

Houston has had a terrible problem with this. Probably the biggest downside to the Illegal Immigrant problem is the impact on the medical facilities.

 

 

 

My friend's wife says that sometimes "patients" call an ambulance, get taken to the ER, complaining of pain and being sick, but when tested they find nothing wrong. The patient's response is, "Well, than can I get something to eat?"

[mrblockofcheese]

There was no other point in your comment. You assume that doctors spend less time filling applications to get money from private companies. It simply isn't the case. They waste the same amount of time on stats and reports rather than taking care of patients. You also assume that public organizations love wasting money. It isn't the case around here. They're generally not as efficient and optimized as private operations but they do not need to make profit which largely counterbalances it. The French health system spends 7 % of its budget on operating costs. No private health company in the world can operate under 15 %.

 

 

actually, my whole point is that the government being involved in healthcare is why the system is so {censored}ed up. if there was no government involvement you wouldn't even need insurance because the price of medical services would drop dramatically. and i love how you basically defeat your own argument by saying that the system you love so much isn't efficient and cant even make a profit and you think that thats okay. also those numbers are meaningless because you don't tell us the differences in the actual budget. any government's budget is going to be larger than a "private" company because the government steals money to fund their operation. private companies actually have to make a profit by satisfying their customers which, you have already so helpfully admitted, government can't do.

[ThudMaker]

actually, my whole point is that the government being involved in healthcare is why the system is so {censored}ed up.

The government isn't the reason OB/GYN docs are throwing in the towel. It's about the malpractice insurance costs and all the extravagant lawsuits.

[mrblockofcheese]

Yeah, and we wouldn't want them of all people stepping in to prevent corporate bodies from exploiting people who need health care but whose insurance premiums would be past the stratosphere and in orbit with the international space station, now would we? It's so easy for people who are born without any hereditary or congenital health problems to think only of themselves. It's the luck of the draw that you your health is good and that you weren't born with cerebral palsy, or cystic fibrosis or that you haven't developed something like multiple sclerosis. Where do your insurance rates go then, homie? Down? The same? I think not.

those people wouldn't need insurance if the government wasn't meddling in the first place. they're the reason prices are so high. and no matter what you say it's never right to steal from people to help someone else. two wrongs don't make a right.

[mrblockofcheese]

The government isn't the reason OB/GYN docs are throwing in the towel. It's about the malpractice insurance costs and all the extravagant lawsuits.

 

 

so what?

[ThudMaker]

so what?

You're suggesting that government involvement is the biggest problem in Healthcare. I'm suggesting to you that it is not.

[bikehorn]

 

actually, my whole point is that the government being involved in healthcare is why the system is so {censored}ed up. if there was no government involvement you wouldn't even need insurance because the price of medical services would drop dramatically. and i love how you basically defeat your own argument by saying that the system you love so much isn't efficient and cant even make a profit and you think that thats okay. also those numbers are meaningless because you don't tell us the differences in the actual budget. any government's budget is going to be larger than a "private" company because the government steals money to fund their operation. private companies actually have to make a profit by satisfying their customers which, you have already so helpfully admitted, government can't do.

 

 

What makes you think costs would go down? Private, for-profit healthcare providers are going to reduce fees out of the goodness of their hearts as a gesture of good will towards people who depend on them? And the cost will then drop so low that people would feel comfortable living uninsured? Have you even thought about what you just wrote?

 

Competition between oil companies has not really resulted in the best deal for end users, has it? It's the same. A very particular type of product(or in our case a service) is in constant and huge demand forever. Unlike oil, healthcare will never become obsolete. If a few massive organisations are in charge of controlling its accessibility, distribution and remuneration that means they wield massive control which could drag the industry with them. If they collude to raise fees to line their own coffers, which would be astronomically lucrative and obviously in their interest, suddenly the "competition" which is supposed to "lower costs" has vaporised and instead the exact opposite happens: the cost goes through the roof and people think it's the "new norm". Oil companies work in collusion, and so will giant medical corporations.

 

Something tells me you know very little about healthcare. Stop reading Conservapedia, homie.

[collinwho]

those people wouldn't need insurance if the government wasn't meddling in the first place. they're the reason prices are so high. and no matter what you say it's never right to steal from people to help someone else. two wrongs don't make a right.

 

 

We've heard from you, a few times now, that the government is the reason prices are so high. . . how? You are missing a step or two in there somewhere. You need to support that argument before you are going to get anywhere here.