Neck relief question

[PaulyWally]

I put Fender flats on one of my basses over the weekend (45-60-80-95). There seems to be a bit more relief than there should be. I knew there would be more relief with the lighter gauge and I did adjust the truss rod. However... I adjusted it to the point where it feels like if I keep going, it's going to break. And I think ideally, it could probably use another 1/4 - 1/2 turn.

 

Thoughts?

 

Edit: I went to heavy gauge strings. 55-70-90-105. My bad.

[Rowka]

Preload the neck in the direction you want to correct and tighten the truss rod. With the preload, the truss rod nut should almost feel loose.

[Fran da Man]

Release the string tension and put an 1/8 (eighth) of a turn on it.

[wades_keys]

 

I put Fender flats on one of my basses over the weekend (45-60-80-95). There seems to be a bit more relief than there should be. I knew there would be more relief with the lighter gauge and I did adjust the truss rod. However... I adjusted it to the point where it feels like if I keep going, it's going to break. And I think ideally, it could probably use another 1/4 - 1/2 turn. Thoughts?

 

What Rowka said - get yourself a 2x4 or similar, 2 wood blocks, and a cushioned c clamp.

 

The wood blocks go in the fret space - one at the 1st fret and the other wherever the bow ends.

 

2x4 on top of the wood blocks, c-clamp on the 2x4 and the bottom of the neck (cushioned).

[dDigitalPimp]

 

Thoughts?

 

 

those strings are super tight at pitch. i had to do the same to my bass when i tried them after a set of rounds.

 

i agree with the preload, much easier if you have the truss rod adjustment at the base of the neck, otherwise maybe detune the strings a little.

[Kindness]

You've reached a point where I feel uncomfortable suggesting things online, but I have ideas to test in person.

 

That said, if you have run out of adjustment in the rod (which could make it feel like you can't spin it any more) you can squeeze more adjustment by using a spacing washer between the adjustment nut and the shoulder against which it tightens.

[Rowka]

What Rowka said - get yourself a 2x4 or similar, 2 wood blocks, and a cushioned c clamp. The wood blocks go in the fret space - one at the 1st fret and the other wherever the bow ends. 2x4 on top of the wood blocks, c-clamp on the 2x4 and the bottom of the neck (cushioned).

 

:confused:

 

Just hang the bass neck over one thigh and brace the body with the other foot. Why make this complicated?

[PaulyWally]

I did loosen the strings to tighten the truss rod at one point. And it still felt like it was getting pretty tight.

 

The way it felt to me, I'm not sure I feel so comfy going any further on it. And it's not bad... I just think it could use a touch more.

 

Also... it's a Peavey with the adjustment wheel at the heel of the neck.

[wades_keys]

 

I did loosen the strings to tighten the truss rod at one point. And it still felt like it was getting pretty tight. The way it felt to me, I'm not sure I feel so comfy going any further on it. And it's not bad... I just think it could use a touch more. Also... it's a Peavey with the adjustment wheel at the heel of the neck.

 

I've read that if you put too many turns on the truss at one sitting, you run the risk of compressing the wood, rather than adjusting the neck.

 

I as a rule never put more than a 1/2 turn in any one day - it could take days for the adjustments to really level out.

 

I'd loosen the strings, loosen the truss rod, then tighten it into a good natural backbow before putting the strings back on.

[bholder]

Odd, I would have thought most flats would be lower tension at pitch, not more.

[Kindness]

 

Odd, I would have thought most flats would be lower tension at pitch, not more.

 

 

Flats are in the vast majority of cases much higher tension. Often 20% higher.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Flats are in the vast majority of cases much higher tension. Often 20% higher.

 

 

I'm with bholder on this one. The whole reason behind Ric updating the 4000 series with stronger trussrods was to allow the use of roundwounds with their higher tension. Perhaps things have switched over time? I dunno.....discuss???

 

The other thing is that the PW said he put lighter gauge flats on, he made no mention of switching from rounds to flats. We need clarification....

[PaulyWally]

 

The other thing is that the PW said he put lighter gauge flats on, he made no mention of switching from rounds to flats. We need clarification....

 

 

I had medium D'Addario rounds on before.

[wades_keys]

 

I'm with bholder on this one. The whole reason behind Ric updating the 4000 series with stronger trussrods was to allow the use of roundwounds with their higher tension. Perhaps things have switched over time? I dunno.....discuss???

 

 

http://faqs.org/faqs/music/guitars/rickenbacker/section-23.html

 

 

[John Hall, ceo@rickenbacker.com , 3/13/1998] "The string tension of a round wound string, especially a nearly pure iron string like those in the Roto Sound class, is almost 100 lbs. greater than a typical flat wound string.

 

[wades_keys]

I put Fender flats on one of my basses over the weekend (45-60-80-95). There seems to be a bit more relief than there should be. I knew there would be more relief with the lighter gauge

Are you using the right term?

 

Wouldn't the tension be less on a lighter gauge string, therefore causing LESS relief?

 

I've always had to loosen truss rods when going down in string gauge.

[82Daion]

I'm with bholder on this one. The whole reason behind Ric updating the 4000 series with stronger trussrods was to allow the use of roundwounds with their higher tension. Perhaps things have switched over time? I dunno.....discuss??? The other thing is that the PW said he put lighter gauge flats on, he made no mention of switching from rounds to flats. We need clarification....

 

Ric may have upgraded their truss rod system because it was a bad design in general.

 

I see all of the 4001's strung with roundwounds that have held up just fine as proof that the old system was strong enough.

[Kindness]

 

I'm with bholder on this one. The whole reason behind Ric updating the 4000 series with stronger trussrods was to allow the use of roundwounds with their higher tension. Perhaps things have switched over time? I dunno.....discuss???

 

 

Perhaps things changed over time or perhaps that's not really what went on with Rics back then. All I know is trends in strings today and for the past decade or so. In that period of time rounds are nearly universally lower tension.

 

Just one example:

http://www.daddario.com/DADProdDetail.aspx?CodaID=1090&ID=3&Class=ACGA

vs.

http://www.daddario.com/DADProdDetail.aspx?CodaID=548&ID=3&Class=ACDA

 

I selected those keeping the material (steel) and the gauges consistent. This is representative of comparisons from other brands as well. All in all, you usually add about 15 lbs of force to the neck when you switch to flats.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I had medium D'Addario rounds on before.

 

 

Lighter strings should have less tension than same-type strings of larger gauge. From what I've been able to dig up in a few minutes here, differences in tension seem to be due to core metals used more than type of winding (round, ground, flat) but I'm still looking. What materials were the two different sets??

[Kindness]

Ric may have upgraded their truss rod system because it was a bad design in general.

 

I didn't want to pile on Ric initially, but I believe you are correct.

[PaulyWally]

 

Lighter strings should have less tension than same-type strings of larger gauge. From what I've been able to dig up in a few minutes here, differences in tension seem to be due to core metals used more than type of winding (round, ground, flat) but I'm still looking. What materials were the two different sets??

 

 

I'm sorry. You guys are right.

 

I went to heavy gauge strings. 55-70-90-105

 

I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I first posted.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I didn't want to pile on Ric initially, but I believe you are correct.

 

 

Read wades_keys link. And note that the upgrade was only a stronger set of trussrods. They were still the same basic design.

[Kindness]

 

Read wades_keys link. And note that the upgrade was only a stronger set of trussrods. They were still the same basic design.

 

 

I know the history of that upgrade (having spoken with current Ric personnel about it), have read the link and I stand by my original comment.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

I'm sorry. You guys are right. I went to heavy gauge strings. 55-70-90-105 I don't know what the hell I was thinking when I first posted.

 

 

Cool, no problem, mystery solved.

 

Follow Rowka's advice....loosen the strings, manually bend the neck *carefully* to straighten, and then take up tension IF there's still more thread left to go. If not, then do as kindness suggests and add a washer or two below the rod nut and redo. Go easy and wait a day after making a 1/2 turn adjustment. Some necks respond quickly and settle in fast, others are more stubborn. It's all about the wood.

[Kindness]

 

I'm with bholder on this one. The whole reason behind Ric updating the 4000 series with stronger trussrods was to allow the use of roundwounds with their higher tension. Perhaps things have switched over time? I dunno.....discuss???

 

 

This is going to bug me like crazy. I am very interested in knowing if for some reason flat wound strings have increased in tension over the years. It is hard enough to get reliable tension numbers from today's product offerings though. Argh! Where can I research this???

[Craig Vecchione]

 

This is going to bug me like crazy. I am very interested in knowing if for some reason flat wound strings have increased in tension over the years. It is hard enough to get reliable tension numbers from today's product offerings though. Argh! Where can I research this???

 

 

Here's what I know so far....tension is the product of diameter and material in the core....windings can't add tension to the string. My guess is that it's simply a matter of what materials were most commonly used as cores back then, and now.