Members L-1329 Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 Let me just say that I'm really losing faith in humanity, or more specifically people who are supposed know better than the things they do. Most of you know my profession, and over the last couple days we've seen one operator after another go and do something not only incredibly stupid and unsafe, but also way outside the rules. These pricks are making our jobs really tough, since now our boss and passengers are always questioning and secon guessing us as to why we won't go but everyone else is. I freakin' hate that {censored}e. A guy last night landed with way less than minimum ceiling and visibility. A couple guys today, one being the so-called standardization pilot for his company, took off on a snow covered runway with worse than poor braking action and less than the airplanes minimum required runway. WTF! All because people can't step up and say "no" when they need to out of fear for their jobs, fear of angering a passenger, or because they don't want to look "weak" to their peers. What a bunch of crap. I really hate this business sometimes. Sorry to unload here, but you gotta get things out somewhere. End of rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Svi Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 That's insane. They sure would be sorry if something horrible happened in this crap. I can't believe people are actually considering flying in this {censored}! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 That's insane. They sure would be sorry if something horrible happened in this crap. I can't believe people are actually considering flying in this {censored}! I don't even want to drive home in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 That's insane. They sure would be sorry if something horrible happened in this crap. I can't believe people are actually considering flying in this {censored}! Trust me, if I wasn't the one up front making the calls, I'd never fly again because of so much unbelievably unsafe and stupid things I've seen over the years. But I gues it's the same with everything, money talks the loudest and anyone who gets in the way of a business and their money becomes a 'problem', even with flying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dDigitalPimp Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 Trust me, if I wasn't the one up front making the calls, I'd never fly again because of so much unbelievably unsafe and stupid things I've seen over the years. this is NOT the kind of thing i want to hear a pilot say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted February 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2008 A mistake in my office costs money. A mistake in yours can be much deadlier. It's good to see you recognize that and keep a hard line on what is acceptable and what is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ivanthetrble Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 Hate to agree with you but I do. Anymore I think 90% of the human population is completely {censored}in' stupid. I mean really, look at some of you folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted February 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2008 Hate to agree with you but I do. Anymore I think 90% of the human population is completely {censored}in' stupid. I mean really, look at some of you folks! Me in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kakona Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 Trust me, if I wasn't the one up front making the calls, I'd never fly again because of so much unbelievably unsafe and stupid things I've seen over the years. But I gues it's the same with everything, money talks the loudest and anyone who gets in the way of a business and their money becomes a 'problem', even with flying. You're right - it's true in every industry and way of life. Almost everyone has a price for their integrity, and for most people it's not that high. *cue Triumph tape* Fight the good fight every momentEvery minute every dayFight the good fight every momentIt's your only way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 this is NOT the kind of thing i want to hear a pilot say. I could tell you about a guy I flew with once or twice who had a cabin door unsafe light come on, in a turboprop at altitude while he was the only pilot. So he leaves the plane on autopilot, goes back past the passengers to the door and starts jimmy-jamming the handle. Next thing is he actually unlatched the door, it gets ripped off the plane, he damn near goes out with the door, and the whole time the passengers are watching in horror as their only pilot just about blew himself out of the plane. He was able to keep hold of the last seat back and pulled himself back in and crawled back up to the cockpit. A few days later he got a call from a small town police department somewhere asking if he needed his door back. It smashed into a shopping mall parking lot and was as flat as a pancake. True story, and that's not even the worst this guy has done. But honestly, the airline side is much better at not letting the cowboy mentality affect things. They're not perfect, but they are a lot better overall than the private side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 A mistake in my office costs money. A mistake in yours can be much deadlier. It's good to see you recognize that and keep a hard line on what is acceptable and what is not. It's cost me three jobs so far, but I'm still here. Sadly I can't say that for everyone I've known that went into the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BassMaster General Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 I work in construction and it's just as bad there. Its scary to hear someone say "It just has to last the warranty period".... Gotta love laziness and the battle for the almighty dollar:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Psilocybin Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 Trust me, if I wasn't the one up front making the calls, I'd never fly again because of so much unbelievably unsafe and stupid things I've seen over the years. This reminds me of the multiple, and very vivid, dreams I've had of being in plane crashes since the last time I flew anywhere (back in 2000). I'm sure I'll eventually need to fly somewhere, but for now I'm more than happy to spend a day driving. I think I'll have to get hammered at the airport bar before I step on another plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 Very sympathetic. There are reams of regulations MESL's etc. Higher-ups push to overlook etc. If anything goes wrong, you will be hung out to dry. If you are still around. One time when I grounded a plane, I was prodded into down-grading the write-up to a fly-able status, I simply stated that the one that was pushing me was authorized to do it himself, the A/C remained grounded and got repaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Les_Izzmor Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 Looks like I'm walking to Florida in March. Believe it or not your post reminds me of something I read about, or saw, a while ago. Strippers at a local club were complaining that some girls were engaging in "extra-curricular" activites. And. Doing things that were not supposed to be done, and actually illegal to do, onstage. The girls that were following the rules and attempting to make a living couldn't keep their jobs and were getting less money than those that blatantly broke the rules. Seems it's prevelant in every profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted February 6, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 Very sympathetic. There are reams of regulations MESL's etc. Higher-ups push to overlook etc. If anything goes wrong, you will be hung out to dry. If you are still around. One time when I grounded a plane, I was prodded into down-grading the write-up to a fly-able status, I simply stated that the one that was pushing me was authorized to do it himself, the A/C remained grounded and got repaired. Nice. A couple months ago I agreed to help out our charter company and fly a trip for them on one of their planes. I pulled out the squak sheet and besides having about 15 open write-ups, the newest one was from the night before that said both pilots smelled burning electrical insulation smell from somewhere in the cockpit. The mechanics only write up, in the 2 minutes he was even at the airport that night was "could not duplicate. Airplane returned to service." The time previous where I agreed to help them out the airplanes standby gyro battery pack was dead. Their mechanics answer was to just fire up the plane for a few minutes and it'll be good to go. I love mechanics who ground airplanes as much as pilots who don't do stupid stuff to get the 'mission' done. They are as vital as anyone to keep things safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ezstep Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 I'm sure that you saw the videos of Aaliyah and her entourage, arguing and threatening and bullying their way onboard while the pilot kept telling them that the plane wouldn't carry all of them. It didn't carry them very far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PaulyWally Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 My brother once told me about small plane he hitched a ride on. The cockpit was open and he could see up the isle and into the cockpit. The plane starts heading down the runway... going... going... going... stops. Turns around, re-taxis, and the same thing... stops at the end of the runway. At this point, my brother is looking up the isle. He sees the pilots turn to each other... and clearly lip-reads one of the pilots saying, "Let's try that one more time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 I wouldn't look at this as a "losing faith in humanity" issue. It's just one of people getting complacent. A guy takes off in less that perfect situation...even dangerous situation...and everything goes ok...then he's much more likely to do it again in a similar situation. It's just human nature. Pilots, doctors and others like them are people, they're not machines that follow A-B-C-D (even though pilots actually have a check-list of A-B-C-D) all the time. They're human, yes, they screw up sometimes. These people aren't evil, but yes, they do stupid stuff sometimes. As much as L-1329 is complaining here...and rightly so, don't get me wrong....he himself has done stupid things that would probably curl our hair too. I doubt he'd tell us any. I've done stupid things. We all have. And yes, some of us have done things in our life that are potentially life threatening to us and others. It's good to vent and get things off your chest, but don't quite give up on humanity yet....especially when you have a plane load of passengers and decide that it's the time to take a few pieces of humanity out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Perfessor Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 I had an old friend who became an air traffic controller. During his training on the midnight shift in Oklahama he said the guy training him put his feet up on the panel and said "you land 'em". He was on the job 6 weeks at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PaulyWally Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 These people aren't evil, but yes, they do stupid stuff sometimes. I suppose I agree with that. In the case of the pilot losing the door (and almost himself)... that story would NOT have the same impact if the door wouldn't have gone out the plane. And any one of us probably wouldn't have thought that the door would actually unlatch. I also try to look at it like this: The pilot loses the door... everyone gets scared... and that's it. What if he would have asked someone else to check the door? How might have things turned out then? You never know things would be better. You only know they would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted February 7, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 7, 2008 I wouldn't look at this as a "losing faith in humanity" issue. It's just one of people getting complacent. A guy takes off in less that perfect situation...even dangerous situation...and everything goes ok...then he's much more likely to do it again in a similar situation. It's just human nature. Pilots, doctors and others like them are people, they're not machines that follow A-B-C-D (even though pilots actually have a check-list of A-B-C-D) all the time. They're human, yes, they screw up sometimes. These people aren't evil, but yes, they do stupid stuff sometimes. As much as L-1329 is complaining here...and rightly so, don't get me wrong....he himself has done stupid things that would probably curl our hair too. I doubt he'd tell us any. I've done stupid things. We all have. And yes, some of us have done things in our life that are potentially life threatening to us and others. It's good to vent and get things off your chest, but don't quite give up on humanity yet....especially when you have a plane load of passengers and decide that it's the time to take a few pieces of humanity out! People don't have to be evil in order for me to lose faith in them. Actually, I lost faith in people as a group a long time ago. Half of humanity is of below average intelligence, and average is no great shakes. There are relatively few smart people, and even they do stupid things. They also create things that make our lives more interesting, and more dangerous, and make it possible for one stupid person - or one smart person doing a stupid thing - affect far more people than in the past. But this isn't about intelligence, really. It's about integrity and priorities. Knowing what the right thing is doesn't mean that people are going to do the right thing. As noted above, sometimes it's greed, and sometimes it's fear, or intimidation. As more and more people fear for their jobs, and their ability to support their families, it gets easier and easier for things like this to happen. It is driven, at least partly, by profits, by quarterly reports and stock prices, and by our government pulling back on regulations and enforcement. The people doing this are not generally stupid. They know what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bholder Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 It's pretty much the same everywhere in the business world, as far as I can tell, though the cost of poor decisions and failure in you arena is generally a tad higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L-1329 Posted February 8, 2008 Author Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 But this isn't about intelligence, really. It's about integrity and priorities. Knowing what the right thing is doesn't mean that people are going to do the right thing. As noted above, sometimes it's greed, and sometimes it's fear, or intimidation. As more and more people fear for their jobs, and their ability to support their families, it gets easier and easier for things like this to happen. It is driven, at least partly, by profits, by quarterly reports and stock prices, and by our government pulling back on regulations and enforcement. The people doing this are not generally stupid. They know what they're doing. This is pretty much what I was trying to get across. There are certain times on any job where we are going to have to draw the line and stand firm, and a professional will do exactly that, knowing full well the cost could be their job and livlihood. I've done that, and lost my job a few times now. Can't fight city hall. And yes I've also been a party to some rather dumb things in my days trying to get a foot in the door of this business, and would've done just about anything to get some jet experience. Those days were a real learning experience, and taught me that once you know whats the right course of action, it's absolutely vital to stand firm and not ever let yourself be intimidated or bullied into compromising yourself, or those who are depending on you. Ever, even knowing that you will be out of work the next day. What really gets to me are the huge numbers of my colleges who just cannot find the strength or integrity to do that. They know what they should do, and put peoples lives in hazardous situations because they are weak and without any fortitude to stand up for themselves. The reason this is bugging me so much right now is that two days ago a guy that I brought into the jet world, and taught how to fly turbo props and jets, who I thought I had shown the proper way to act and make decisions, made a very poor decision on a flight of his. I would have never guessed he'd have done what he did, and I'm really disappointed. But I can only answer for myself I guess, and try to let the rest of the world go on as it wants to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators isaac42 Posted February 8, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 8, 2008 That's true. You can never really answer for anyone else. Even if you're sure, you can be wrong. And, as you've noted, not everyone has the strength to do what's right and suffer the consequences. Sometimes it's because others will also pay the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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