Members georgestrings Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 Interesting piece...and very informative. I found 2 statements that I took particular objection to... 1- We live at a time where Americans...are actually cheering and encouraging such torture as justifiable revenge for the September 11 attacks. I've never heard anyone support waterboarding for the purpose of getting revenge. In the contemporary American context, it is a method of extracting information. There are arguments as to how effective it is at getting info, granted...but I've never heard anyone suggest it as a tool for revenge. 2- Waterboarding will be one our future enemy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 I agree, {censored}ing up a few people to save millions seems kinda worth it. Hell, I'd be good with torturing those three to death, if it would prevent another 9/11... - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 And how long will it be before we use this on our own? Cops start waterboarding people who plead the 5th. Any comment on Pelosi's role in this??? - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Psilocybin Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 Any comment on Pelosi's role in this??? - georgestrings I don't have "any comment on Pelosi's role in this" because I'm not talking about Pelosi. Nor am I talking about "red herring", whatever that is. I am talking about waterboarding. A nifty quote from the article "Of course, when you waterboard you get all the magic answers you want -because remember, the subject will talk. They all talk! Anyone strapped down will say anything, absolutely anything to get the torture to stop. Torture. Does. Not. Work." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thumper Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 The entire torture issue burns me to no end. I worked as a human intelligence officer on a couple deployments when I was in the Army. Any professional can tell you torture doesn't work. The information gained is inaccurate, and the methods have a negative effect on the mental health of the operator---not to mention the Hague and Geneva Conventions outlaw it. I've never used it, never condoned it, and we usually got good results using more humane tactics. It thoroughly pisses me off that a bunch of sadistic semi-pro punks are f*cking up years of intel gathering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bassin' 'Round Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 I don't have "any comment on Pelosi's role in this" because I'm not talking about Pelosi. Nor am I talking about "red herring", whatever that is. I am talking about waterboarding.A nifty quote from the article "Of course, when you waterboard you get all the magic answers you want -because remember, the subject will talk. They all talk! Anyone strapped down will say anything, absolutely anything to get the torture to stop. Torture. Does. Not. Work." ...ask John McCain wether or not torture works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted February 6, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 6, 2008 The entire torture issue burns me to no end. I worked as a human intelligence officer on a couple deployments when I was in the Army. Any professional can tell you torture doesn't work. The information gained is inaccurate, and the methods have a negative effect on the mental health of the operator---not to mention the Hague and Geneva Conventions outlaw it. I never used it, never condoned it, and we usually got good results using more humane tactics. It thoroughly pisses me off that a bunch of sadistic semi-pro punks are f*cking up years of intel gathering... I torture my first year associates with the assignments I give them, but I think that's a little different.I trust your experience in the area. It matches what I've heard from other informed sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Psilocybin Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 ...ask John McCain wether or not torture works...Well I guess it must have worked. The information they gained from John McCain was enough to turn the tide of the war. Thats right, John McCain lost Viet Nam for us by opening his mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted February 6, 2008 Members Share Posted February 6, 2008 I never used it, never condoned it, and we usually got good results using more humane tactics. It thoroughly pisses me off that a bunch of sadistic semi-pro punks are f*cking up years of intel gathering... Just out of curiosity, what are these more humane tactics that you've used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Psilocybin Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 Just out of curiosity, what are these more humane tactics that you've used? Well I'm sure it wasn't as harsh as the Lug MP3's the US used to get Manuel Noriega out of the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 ...ask John McCain wether or not torture works..."Torture does not work" - John McCainhttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174964,00.html"Torture does not work" - John McCainhttp://mwcnews.net/content/view/2215/26/Should we ask him again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bbl Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 Well I guess it must have worked. The information they gained from John McCain was enough to turn the tide of the war. Thats right, John McCain lost Viet Nam for us by opening his mouth. Hey, he gave 'em the names of the Green Bay Packers! Once the North Vietnamese learned how to run the Green Bay sweep, it was over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members citizenralph Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 Just out of curiosity, what are these more humane tactics that you've used? Fluffy cusions perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thumper Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 Just out of curiosity, what are these more humane tactics that you've used? Can't tell--I'd have to water-board you... Sensory deprivation and mild sleep deprivation to induce a sense of imbalance, good cop/bad cop, repetitive questioning among others. Surprisingly enough, appealing to human nature works well. Once you get a subject responding (even if in defiance), you've won and it's just a matter of time before you get what you're looking for. Here's the real kicker---once you're done with the interrogation, let 'em go (unless you need to maintain custody for other reasons). The psychological impact of releasing someone who was convinced you were going to kill them is considerable. (puts on fedora and trench coat, walks off into the evening fog...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dravenzouk Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 The entire torture issue burns me to no end. I worked as a human intelligence officer on a couple deployments when I was in the Army. Any professional can tell you torture doesn't work. The information gained is inaccurate, and the methods have a negative effect on the mental health of the operator---not to mention the Hague and Geneva Conventions outlaw it. I never used it, never condoned it, and we usually got good results using more humane tactics. It thoroughly pisses me off that a bunch of sadistic semi-pro punks are f*cking up years of intel gathering... Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner folks. A voice of reason and intelligence, backed up by ACTUAL first-hand experience where it counts; a respect for human rights and the law, a genuine desire to gather important and FACTUAL information that will help keep our country secure; a real understanding of what's at stake and what constitutes an efficient method of dealing with the problems at hand.However......Thumper, the position you are taking is essentially anti-torture....which is the side that most liberals take....which means that it is liberal.....which means that you ARE a liberal.....which means that you are a socialist.....which means that you are either a commie or a muslim sympathizer.....which means that you are anti-American.....which means that you are a terrorist.....which means that all you want to do is take people's guns away and tax everyone to death......which means that the 9-11 attacks were your fault.....which means that you probably cheered on the hijackers and celebrated the deaths of all those Americans. You probably don't even hate gay people. Why do you hate America so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thumper Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 I'm a registered Independent. A close friend (MAJ Kip Taylor, RIP buddy) died in the Pentagon on 9/11. My cousin Mike (retired SF Warrant Officer) has a tin and tupperware leg, courtesy of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. I've got a tin ear courtesy of Al Qaeda in Iraq. I really, really, really hate terrorists. Having said that, we abandon the high ground when we resort to their measures. [/rant] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dravenzouk Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 FWIW, you absolutely have my respect (and my condolences and appreciation for your/Kip's/Mike's sacrifices). I just wish that some of those flag-waving "patriots" would actually listen to your viewpoint. Especially since it has a bit more validity and credibility than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 However......Thumper, the position you are taking is essentially anti-torture....which is the side that most liberals take....which means that it is liberal.....which means that you ARE a liberal.....which means that you are a socialist.....which means that you are either a commie or a muslim sympathizer.....which means that you are anti-American.....which means that you are a terrorist.....which means that all you want to do is take people's guns away and tax everyone to death......which means that the 9-11 attacks were your fault.....which means that you probably cheered on the hijackers and celebrated the deaths of all those Americans. You probably don't even hate gay people. Why do you hate America so much? Why do you suppose Nancy Pelosi approved of it, and does that fact make you think any less of her??? - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members filterthing Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 no way man, with that list you can rant all you want, you earned it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members filterthing Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 Why do you suppose Nancy Pelosi approved of it, and does that fact make you think any less of her??? - georgestrings please list everyone who approved of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dravenzouk Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 Why do you suppose Nancy Pelosi approved of it, and does that fact make you think any less of her??? - georgestrings I have no idea why she approved, and yes I absolutely think less of her for it. On that same note, don't assume I think "highly" of her in the first place (for the record - I don't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members King Kashue Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 "Torture does not work" - John McCain http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174964,00.html"Torture does not work" - John McCain http://mwcnews.net/content/view/2215/26/Should we ask him again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members georgestrings Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 please list everyone who approved of it Feel free to assemble it yourself... correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Pelosi railed against the current administration in regards to torture on more than a few occasions??? - georgestrings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members filterthing Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 Feel free to assemble it yourself... correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Pelosi railed against the current administration in regards to torture on more than a few occasions??? - georgestrings here is what i have assembled per your instructions http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=bush+waterboarding&word2=pelosi+waterboarding interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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