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Water-boarding fact thread...


chris-dax

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Just found this in today's WSJ - my emphasis added...

 

Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri planned the October 2000 bombing of the USS Cole. Abu Zubaydah was the mastermind of the foiled millennium terrorist attacks, which had Los Angeles airport as one of its targets. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed directed the September 11 attacks, and has claimed to have personally beheaded Wall Street Journal reporter Danny Pearl.

 

All three men were captured by the CIA in 2002 and waterboarded in the course of their interrogations. They are also the only U.S. detainees to have been waterboarded. That fact, publicly confirmed yesterday by CIA Director Michael Hayden, shreds whatever is left to the so-called torture narrative, according to which the Bush Administration has engaged in widespread, needless and systematic torture of detainees.

 

Instead, we have sworn public testimony that the waterboarding was conducted against the three individuals best positioned to know about impending terrorist atrocities. The interrogations took place when a second major terrorist attack was widely seen as inevitable. And we know that the waterboarding of Abu Zubaydah helped lead to the capture of KSM, and to the foiling of an active terrorist plot against the United States.

 

The waterboarding was conducted by intelligence professionals who understood they were operating not only with the approval of the Justice Department but also the informed consent of key Congressional leaders, including Democrat Jay Rockefeller, then the ranking minority Member on the Senate Intelligence Committee, and then-House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi.

 

In his own testimony yesterday, Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell refused to rule out the use of waterboarding in the future, though he said it would have to be approved by the President and Attorney General.

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1. Any nation that tortures people, for whatever reasons, has a hard time maintaining the high ground in any discussions regarding human rights.

 

2. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't have done it. But. If we tortured people then we're a nation that isn't above torturing people.

 

3. When do you draw the line as to when torture is accpetable and unacceptable once you've decided it as a possible course of action?

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There is some agrument whether waterboarding is considered actual torture. There is no doubt with the brutal use of the Lug MP3.
:(

 

That's a good point. Les_Izzmor's post assumes waterboarding is torture. I am in agreement with the WSJ and, apparently, Nancy Pelosi, in believing that it is not.

 

I have no experience with Lug MP3's - what does the Geneva Convention say?

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That was an interesting article, thanks for providing it. I was less aware of the facts of the matter than I should have been and also found Senator McCain's statements on the matter persuasive (I do not support him for President, but I accept his credentials as an expert on torture). Though it embarrasses me to do it and flies in the face of internet forum protocol, which requires that I simply restate my original opinion along with overt or implied personal insults directed towards those who disagree, I hereby retract my approval of the water boarding described above.

 

Mea culpa.

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1. Any nation that tortures people, for whatever reasons, has a hard time maintaining the high ground in any discussions regarding human rights.

2. I'm not saying we should or shouldn't have done it. But. If we tortured people then we're a nation that isn't above torturing people.

3. When do you draw the line as to when torture is accpetable and unacceptable once you've decided it as a possible course of action?

 

...when it comes to getting info from terrorists that could prevent an attack & save American lives, absolutely any method needed is acceptable...

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Interesting piece...and very informative.

 

I found 2 statements that I took particular objection to...

 

1- We live at a time where Americans...are actually cheering and encouraging such torture as justifiable revenge for the September 11 attacks.

 

I've never heard anyone support waterboarding for the purpose of getting revenge. In the contemporary American context, it is a method of extracting information. There are arguments as to how effective it is at getting info, granted...but I've never heard anyone suggest it as a tool for revenge.

 

2- Waterboarding will be one our future enemy

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Interesting piece...and very informative.

 

I found 2 statements that I took particular objection to...

 

1- We live at a time where Americans...are actually cheering and encouraging such torture as justifiable revenge for the September 11 attacks.

 

I've never heard anyone support waterboarding for the purpose of getting revenge. In the contemporary American context, it is a method of extracting information. There are arguments as to how effective it is at getting info, granted...but I've never heard anyone suggest it as a tool for revenge.

 

2- Waterboarding will be one our future enemy

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In any case, if America says its ok to use torture, how long until we start using it on our own? Perhaps one day we can all have a good reason to be afraid of our government.

 

Johnny says, "I don't like the president".

Cop says, "To the waterboard with this unpatriotic scum."

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In any case, if America says its ok to use torture, how long until we start using it on our own? Perhaps one day we can all have a good reason to be afraid of our government.


Johnny says, "I don't like the president".

Cop says, "To the waterboard with this unpatriotic scum."

 

 

 

 

Nice red herring...

 

 

 

- georgestrings

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