Proficiency versus Artistry versus Both

[WarMan]

Who are some bass players and guitar players who are very technically proficient, but basically boring to listen to?

 

Steve Vai?

Joe Satriani?

 

Who are some who may not be the most technical players but they fit well within their group and you enjoy them?

 

Keith Richards?

Duff McKagan?

Sting?

 

Who are some that are both technically proficient and enjoyable to listen to?

McCartney?

Flea?

Jamerson?

Geddy?

[Funkee1]

I'm not that big on Victa Wooten. Don't get me wrong.....the brutha is technically amazing. But both his solo records, and the Flecktones stuff leaves me cold.

[Funkee1]

And another one! John Myung. Dream Theater is an amazing group of musicians, making really wanktastic, dull music.

[One Bad Monkey]

 

I'm not that big on Victa Wooten. Don't get me wrong.....the brutha is technically amazing. But both his solo records, and the Flecktones stuff leaves me cold.

 

 

+1 on Wooten. Great guy, amazing musician, his music doesn't make me want to pick up the bass and play.

 

For someone that I think is proficient and enjoyable to listen to, I'm gonna say John Entwistle. I was never a big fan of the Who until my old band wanted to cover "The Real Me," so the singer made me a mix CD of that and a bunch of other Who songs. I really liked Entwistle's lines; they stuck out and still moved the song along without stepping on anything else.

[WarMan]

I'm a Van Halen / Van Hager fan, but I think that Eddie sometimes crossed the line to where the song was just about him shredding away without regards to how interesting he sounded. On many other songs his playing really fit.

[82Daion]

Mark King is technically amazing, but his lines, and his solos especially, do nothing for me at all.

 

Tina Weymouth has very little by way of chops, but her lines do incredible things for the songs they're placed in, and she's incredibly funky.

[Funkee1]

I'm a Van Halen / Van Hager fan, but I think that Eddie sometimes crossed the line to where the song was just about him shredding away without regards to how interesting he sounded. On many other songs his playing really fit.

Well the band was called "Van Halen". It stands to reason that it is all about him!

[chunky-b]

Well the band was called "Van Halen". It stands to reason that it is all about him!

 

Could have been all about Alex, too! :poke:

[Hearafter]

Could have been all about Alex, too! :poke:

 

I always thought Hot For Teacher was just Eddie and Alex in 'Dueling Banjos" mode

[JacieFB]

 

Who are some bass players and guitar players who are very technically proficient, but basically boring to listen to? Steve Vai? Joe Satriani? Who are some who may not be the most technical players but they fit well within their group and you enjoy them? Keith Richards? Duff McKagan? Sting? Who are some that are both technically proficient and enjoyable to listen to? McCartney? Flea? Jamerson? Geddy?

 

 

 

 

Sting easily falls into your 3rd category, IMO.

[T. Alan Smith]

Actually, I'm quite surprised you put Sting in the lesser technical group. His craft is highly refined.

As for Vai, it comes down to being able to hear and appreciate the art he is actually producing thru his playing & his writing. I have no interest in buying any of his stuff, to be honest, but when my buddy plays it for me(often), it impossible to miss the soul & imagination that comes out of his playing.

[WarMan]

Perhaps I've not listened enough to Sting's playing. I tend to hear Police songs as a whole versus picking out the bass parts like I do with some other groups. I didn't mean for anyone to be stung by my comment about Sting.

[T. Alan Smith]

 

Perhaps I've not listened enough to Sting's playing. I tend to hear Police songs as a whole versus picking out the bass parts like I do with some other groups. I didn't mean for anyone to be stung by my comment about Sting.

 

 

You tend to hear Police songs??

Your Mission- pick up Synchronicity, and really study Stings lines=utter high art!

[JacieFB]

Perhaps I've not listened enough to Sting's playing. I tend to hear Police songs as a whole versus picking out the bass parts like I do with some other groups. I didn't mean for anyone to be stung by my comment about Sting.

 

 

Yep, T. Alan speaks the truth. His solo work also has some really amazing bass lines, too. He is also the consumate musician. That takes a proficiency beyond being a great bassist.

 

He is also a student of McCartney. And in my opinion, he's done a 1000x better job of making enjoyable songs than Paul ever did.

 

Yeah. I'm a Sting fan.

[Hotblack]

Kim Gordon (Sonic Youth) - I don't think that's she's breaking any new ground with her bass playing, but her lines just work. Great stuff.

 

The Who: I respect all of the members of the band, but you'll never catch me putting on a Who album.

 

Dream Theater: They can all play, but their songs bore me to tears.

[WarMan]

I've got one of the Bass Play A Long CDs with Message in a Bottle. It's a fun, and easy, song to play. For kicks, I sometimes click in my Bass Big Muff and my Phase 90.

[T. Alan Smith]

 

I've got one of the Bass Play A Long CDs with Message in a Bottle. It's a fun, and easy, song to play. For kicks, I sometimes click in my Bass Big Muff and my Phase 90.

 

 

You'll also notice that it's also highly imaginative writing, especially for it's time.

You'll also notice that the feel Sting applies to his well written parts isn't necessarily easy for most people to pull off.

 

Looking at your list in your 1st post, and the breakdown...and looking at your post here...it's easy for someone like myself to think your equating proficiency with number of notes/speed.

[nicebigstrings]

Shawn Lane - chops put to the service of just pure wicked playing.

 

See also: Jeff Beck, Paco De Lucia, Django Reinhardt, Marcus Miller, Joscho Stephan, Angelo De Barre, Joe Pass and just about any cat that has made a living playing upright in a jazz context.

[RSBro]

 

As for Vai, it comes down to being able to hear and appreciate the art he is actually producing thru his playing & his writing. I have no interest in buying any of his stuff, to be honest, but when my buddy plays it for me(often), it impossible to miss the soul & imagination that comes out of his playing.

 

 

IMHO, Vai > Satch, FTW.

 

Steve puts it all out there, whether you like or "get it" or not. I have quite a few DVDs of his, and it's a whole performance, and gets the band and crowd involved.

Homedude doesn't just stand there and go shred-tacular on everyone, kinda like Satch does. I can like both, but I'd much rather go to a Vai show anyday.

[WarMan]

Sting was more than just a bass player. I guess when I said proficient I was thinking more along the lines of technical proficiency, not artistic proficiency. I probably should have clarified myself.

 

Steve Vai is what I think of as being the poster boy for a master of the guitar. But his songs just sound boring to me.

[T. Alan Smith]

Sting was more than just a bass player. I guess when I said proficient I was thinking more along the lines of technical proficiency, not artistic proficiency. I probably should have clarified myself. Steve Vai is what I think of as being the poster boy for a master of the guitar. But his songs just sound boring to me.

 

Yeah, I feel clarification is in order, but then again, isn't that what this thread is about?

Technical proficiency is more than simply playing a lot of notes. It's about how you play them; how you push & pull the beat, how you play the space between the notes(groove); it's about taste; it's about style...and it's about creating a transcending listening experience for your audience. Tony Levin, Patrick O'Hearn, Bernard Edwards & Sting are all good examples of this.

Sure, much of that is closely related to artistic proficiency, but it just goes to show that technical & artistic proficiency should go hand in hand.

 

You should really listen to some better Vai arrangements. There's a lot there to learn.