Members johnbegone Posted August 25, 2008 Members Share Posted August 25, 2008 Hey all, so in my brief bass playing career (about five years) I've gone through several different amps, starting off with some combos, then I got my first Ampeg 4x10, then my second, then my third. Then I sold two of those and bought an 8x10, loved that but there were obviously some downsides to something that big. Well now I have an Ampeg BSE-410HLF which I picked up in a trade and haven't really even used, and then I just picked up a Sunn 410H off the forum here. I've been rehearsing with that with my Sunn 300T and it is the thickness. I totally dig it. 4x10 is really probably all I need, but its tough to move those by myself. I'm considering going so a small stacked set up, and I've been looking mightily at the Avatar cabs. A guy is selling a 2x12 locally right now, so I'm considering selling off the Ampeg 4x10 and buying the 2x12. Will I be happy if I do that? I'm not a "I need the most massive low end ever!" kind of a bass player. I'm more of a "punch in you in the face" kind of a bass player, and I like to play with distortion and stuff sometimes. Then, let's say I love the 2x12, should I get a 2x10 or a 4x10 from Avatar to go with it. Obviously I'll be able to try it out with the Sunn 4x10 for awhile, see if I like that combo, but could I get away with a 2x10? Will there be a big different in volume between either of those and the 2x12? Thanks in advance for your help, I like flipping gear for new gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ender_rpm Posted August 25, 2008 Members Share Posted August 25, 2008 I have a 410 NEO and an older 212. I much prefer the 410, it just slays, is lighter, and has massive power handling. I also may have fried my 212, but thats another story For what you are describing, and you power handling requirement,s the 212 would be a cool, midrange friendly option. I get more bass from the 410, but YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members james on bass Posted August 25, 2008 Members Share Posted August 25, 2008 I agree the 410 might be the fuller sounding cab. I've had an Avatar 212 for a couple years now and I really like it. I think if you want to go with 2 cabs anyway, 2x2x12" would be a great set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnbegone Posted August 25, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 25, 2008 Well I don't think I'd do 4 12's, I still want some 10's. Am I stupid to think that 2x10 + a 2x12 is going to sound like I want it to? I'm just looking for something lightweight that will give me a lot of options. I figure I could use the 2x12 at rehearsal, keep the 2x10 at home, put them together for shows, etc. I don't know, just thoughts. I thought about doing this with Eden stuff, but Avatar is obviously a lot more cost effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted August 25, 2008 Members Share Posted August 25, 2008 Well I don't think I'd do 4 12's, I still want some 10's. Am I stupid to think that 2x10 + a 2x12 is going to sound like I want it to? I'm just looking for something lightweight that will give me a lot of options. I figure I could use the 2x12 at rehearsal, keep the 2x10 at home, put them together for shows, etc. I don't know, just thoughts. I thought about doing this with Eden stuff, but Avatar is obviously a lot more cost effective. I have this: And I replaced it with just this, because it's punchier: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnbegone Posted August 25, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 25, 2008 So you were basically rocking the set up I was thinking of, except non-Neo, right? No punch there huh? How would you describe the sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brotherbassj Posted August 25, 2008 Members Share Posted August 25, 2008 I use an avatar neo 4x10 and can say nothing horrible about it. I actually like it alot although lately my markbass stuff has gotten alot of use! I have an older avatar 2x12 also non-neo and it is cool but the neo 4x10 does sound better. I a/b ed the neo against the epifani 4x10 and for the cost........I could not get off the more than double price for the epifani. In my humble opinion the avatar actually seemed to have a better bass response (running both through a power amp/avalon U5 setup). There's my 2 cents....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueEcho811 Posted August 26, 2008 Members Share Posted August 26, 2008 I bought my 212 Neo about 3 months ago new from Avatar and it is the sex. It it has a powerful, chest rattling punch and sounds very full, works great with my low B. I have yet to take it up to a volume it can't handle, only to volumes I can't handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnbegone Posted August 26, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 26, 2008 So I'm wondering if there is a big sonic difference between the old 212's and the Neo 212's? Because I've read lots of good stuff about the Neo's, but some people here are complaining the old ones aren't punchy enough. I found out that the one I was looking at locally is an old one, so probably going to pass on it if the verdict is Neo or nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted August 26, 2008 Members Share Posted August 26, 2008 So you were basically rocking the set up I was thinking of, except non-Neo, right? No punch there huh? How would you describe the sound? I won't say it's not punchy, it's just that my Peavey does in one cab what my Avatars do with two cabs, and it weighs less than either of the Avatars. I still have them, I think they're great, but it's a drag to haul out 2 cabs when I can just bring one.C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members der oxenrig Posted August 26, 2008 Members Share Posted August 26, 2008 Try Schroeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnbegone Posted August 26, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 26, 2008 I would love to try Schroeder's, but they are $900-1000 per cabinet, and I just can't afford that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ender_rpm Posted August 26, 2008 Members Share Posted August 26, 2008 I won't say it's not punchy, it's just that my Peavey does in one cab what my Avatars do with two cabs, and it weighs less than either of the Avatars. I still have them, I think they're great, but it's a drag to haul out 2 cabs when I can just bring one.C7 I think this gets it. The 410 has the bottom and punch (upper mids) of the 212, but with more clarity and thump (low mids). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mike fitzwell Posted August 26, 2008 Members Share Posted August 26, 2008 So I'm wondering if there is a big sonic difference between the old 212's and the Neo 212's? Because I've read lots of good stuff about the Neo's, but some people here are complaining the old ones aren't punchy enough.I found out that the one I was looking at locally is an old one, so probably going to pass on it if the verdict is Neo or nothing. Can't tell ya about the Neo's, but the old 212 Delta I had was all boom and no bite. Almost soured me on 12s all together until I heard (and subsequently purchased) the Genz NeoX-212. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted August 26, 2008 Members Share Posted August 26, 2008 I would love to try Schroeder's, but they are $900-1000 per cabinet, and I just can't afford that. How did you go thru all those cabs when you weren't playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brotherbassj Posted August 26, 2008 Members Share Posted August 26, 2008 Go With the Avatar Neo's or Nada...that is my vote.....my 2x12 is the old Delta non neos and my 4x10 is neo loaded. I like it alot and have used ampegs (hlfs) hartke(ugh), SWR, epifani, Peavey and others. Dollar for dollar, bang, boom, bite, my humble vote is for the 4x10 neo loaded tolex covered avatars! It is affordable and does the job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnbegone Posted August 26, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 26, 2008 So in spite of all your recommendations I had a guy call me today who wanted to trade a 2x12 Avatar cabinet for my Ampeg BSE-410HLF. So we ended up working out a deal. We were playing them through his bass/amp and they are two very different sound cabs. Though I felt like the 212 had quite a bit of tones in it when I was messing around with. I really don't know if its the standard Deltas or the Neo's, as from what I've read there is no way to tell other than the weight or buy taking the speakers out and having a look-see. Either way though, looks like I'm trying out 2x12's for the first time. I won't be able to plug it into my rig for a day or two, but I'll let you know what I think. I think I may be initially dissapointed by itself, but paired with a 4x10 or a 2x10 I just have a feeling I'm going to dig my sound. But we will see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnbegone Posted August 28, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 28, 2008 Alright, so I took the 2x12 over to my rehearsal space and gave it my first run. First impression was that it was kind of airy, metallic sounding. I realized that this was the ridiculously overhyped tweeter. I had read reviews that said you need to replace the tweeter, disable it, or run it really quiet. I can totally totally agree. I'm sure the tweeter would sound good for like slap/funk, but I'm doing the rock thing so I had it run really low. It sounded pretty good matched up with my Sunn 4x10. I did some EQ work to get rid of the honky tweeter. I can definitely see it working for me as a standalone cab, but I think I may look into getting a 2x10 to pair it up with. Crescent Seven, it looks as though you did the modification by replacing the tweeter with a full range speaker. How much did that affect the overall tone? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crescent Seven Posted August 28, 2008 Members Share Posted August 28, 2008 Crescent Seven, it looks as though you did the modification by replacing the tweeter with a full range speaker. How much did that affect the overall tone? Thanks! Much smoother high-mids and highs, no tweeter hiss, and when you pop, it has a bit of punch to it rather than just a high pitch click. It handles distortion much better, also.I not only replaced the tweeters, I replaced the crossovers with high-pass filters, one at 500hz (the 2x10) and the other at 800hz. It's amazing how much more high mid clarity you get running an actual speaker. I might do the same thing to the Peavey after I've beat on it for a year or two, but honestly, the tweeter in the Peavey is decent, much better than the POS that came with the Avatar. If you're interested in doing the mod, it's really quite simple, and costs about $70 for the parts: a Galaxy midrange driver, a capacitor, and an inductor. The hardest part of the whole thing is cutting the hole for the speaker, other than that it's soldering a gigantic capacitor to an enormous inductor, and soldering the wires to the parts. Took me all of about 10 minutes once the hole was cut. The how-to is in the Bass FAQ's section, under "Burdizzos Mod", and I can walk you through it via PM if you have questions.C7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bry Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 It seems to me like If you feed the cabs with an Eden WT800 it will fix a lot of the objectionable sounds you are hearing on some of these cabs.... DSP is a wonderful thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jugghaid Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 I use a Avatar 410 and it works just fine. Keep in mind, front of house sound is gonna come from a DI or Direct box (I use the DI in the back of my amp) so it's really just for stage sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RSBro Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 IME (and may be different for others like C7) but a 210+212 isn't ideal b/c the 212 will eat up the tone/volume/etc.. from the 210. I had a Mesa setup like that and you really couldn't even tell the 210 was on. Drawing less power from the amp, smaller cone surface area, not as loud, etc.. Now a 410+212 I know from experience will absolutely slay. And put the 410 on the bottom so you can get that grind and punch from the 12's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chris-dax Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 cosmetically, I think this cab is super delicious... I've got a 210 and a 112 avatar deltas which I am seriously considering replacing with a 410... this 410 neo weighs 65# and costs $580 delivered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted April 1, 2009 Members Share Posted April 1, 2009 IME Avatar cabinets,while not the best ever made,are damned good boxes. I was impressed enough to buy one that I was playing through at practice from the exiting bassist.Got it for a damned good price with a padded cover,and a nice speakon line. I love the white baffles in the C7 rig pictured in this thread,and that little speaker makes much more sense to me than a horn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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