Gettingthisclose to an IEM system

[Thunderbroom]

A little background for those that don't bother to read my bloggish posts...

 

My band has decided to move to an IEM system. During the Summer we play lots of festivals. Often we get great on-stage monitoring; sometimes we don't. It's the same thing when playing bars. We have our own small PA that we use when necessary, but realistically it's used for maybe 20% of our gigs in a year. We've played with quite a few bands this Summer that use IEM's and everyone of them, without exception, says it's the best move they've made.

 

We want a completely self-contained setup that will house a monitor mixer and seven wireless transmitters (each of us wants our own mono mix). We want to be able to show up to every gig and drop the monitor mixer on the stage connect ourselves to it and then patch the monitor mixer to the FOH snake. This should ensure that we have the same mix every gig we play.

 

When we use our PA, we hire a sound engineer to set everything up and run it instead of doing it ourselves. This guy is a pro. He works for a major radio station as an audio engineer and runs his own sound company as well. We asked him to put together a system for us. While we're still working out the details, here's what he's recommending:

 

Band Purchase:

Allen & Heath WZ3 16 Channel Monitor Console

Road Ready 12U Slant Top Rack with 8 RU Vertical

16 Channel Fan to Fan Snake

Shure Antenna Combiner

 

Individual Purchase

Shure PSM400 Wireless System

Some will go wired and others will go wireless

He's recommended that the drummer and I (bassist) go with Shure SCL5 Dual Driver Earbuds.

 

My guess is that this is a solid system...not bottom of the barrel and not top of the line. We have the money in the band fund to make the purchase. Each band member has made more than enough to cover their end of the purchase. We discussed this at the beginning of the Summer, so everyone has been putting money aside (hopefully) to make this purchase.

 

I've always been against the "band" buying anything; however, reality has set in. No one in the band has the kinda coin to drop on the mixer and other stuff. The only way to do it is to purchase it as community property.

 

Also, would you recommend an ambient mic for the stage to direct at the audience and to be available to the mix?

[1tallbassguy]

Good move on the IEM's.

I cant imagine ever going back to wedges.

 

We have a couple PSM400 recievers in our rack.

One reciever is capable of sending 2 mono mixes...one pan left the other pan right. Works well for us.

 

On the band buying community property, in my experience thats a move you will live to regret.

My .02

[Oldtimer]

 

My band has decided to move to an IEM system. During the Summer we play lots of festivals. Often we get great on-stage monitoring; sometimes we don't. It's the same thing when playing bars. We have our own small PA that we use when necessary, but realistically it's used for maybe 20% of our gigs in a year. We've played with quite a few bands this Summer that use IEM's and everyone of them, without exception, says it's the best move they've made. We want a completely self-contained setup that will house a monitor mixer and seven wireless transmitters (each of us wants our own mono mix). We want to be able to show up to every gig and drop the monitor mixer on the stage connect ourselves to it and then patch the monitor mixer to the FOH snake. This should ensure that we have the same mix every gig we play. When we use our PA, we hire a sound engineer to set everything up and run it instead of doing it ourselves. This guy is a pro. He works for a major radio station as an audio engineer and runs his own sound company as well. We asked him to put together a system for us. While we're still working out the details, here's what he's recommending: Band Purchase: Allen & Heath WZ3 16 Channel Monitor Console Road Ready 12U Slant Top Rack with 8 RU Vertical 16 Channel Fan to Fan Snake Shure Antenna Combiner Individual Purchase Shure PSM400 Wireless System Some will go wired and others will go wireless He's recommended that the drummer and I (bassist) go with Shure SCL5 Dual Driver Earbuds. My guess is that this is a solid system...not bottom of the barrel and not top of the line. We have the money in the band fund to make the purchase. Each band member has made more than enough to cover their end of the purchase. We discussed this at the beginning of the Summer, so everyone has been putting money aside (hopefully) to make this purchase. I've always been against the "band" buying anything; however, reality has set in. No one in the band has the kinda coin to drop on the mixer and other stuff. The only way to do it is to purchase it as community property. Also, would you recommend an ambient mic for the stage to direct at the audience and to be available to the mix?

 

 

I think you will be happy with the gear you have chosen. My band uses basically the same rig. The drummer and you should go with dual driver in-ears, either Shure or Westone UM2. I have UM2's and like them a lot. The ambient mic onstage will help alot to keep you in touch with your audience. It takes time for some people to get used to IEM's. Make sure everyone gives them a fair trial. Typically, your singers start to relax and not try and oversing. The volume wars stop and your dynamics get much better. BTW, drummers and keyboards are wired in our band to save costs and because they are stationary.

[L. Ron Hoover]

You're going to need a splitter with that.

 

 

I know a bunch of bands who have gone with a very similar setup and they really dig it. That little mixer is quite a good bargain. I love mixing bands with their own IEM setups, it makes things really easy.

[Thunderbroom]

 

You're going to need a splitter with that.

 

 

Isn't this a splitter?

 

16 Channel Fan to Fan Snake

[Thunderbroom]

 

On the band buying community property, in my experience thats a move you will live to regret. My .02

 

 

It's a necessary evil. The A&H console is nearly $2k. The antenna combiner is over $400. The rack is over $300. No one has the bread to do that. The lead guitarist and I own pretty much everything else.

[burdizzos]

 

Isn't this a splitter? 16 Channel Fan to Fan Snake

 

 

 

That mixer is a splitter. It has XLR inputs and throughputs on each channel.

 

 

Also, the ambient mic is a good idea. If you have room, you should put a few of them around the stage so the band members can easily communicate with each other. Put one up near the singers and one on either side of the stage run only to the monitor mixer and set low in everyone's mix. That way anyone on stage can speak into those mics and be heard by only the people wearing the IEMs.

[L. Ron Hoover]

 

Isn't this a splitter? 16 Channel Fan to Fan Snake

 

 

 

Nope. If you're planning to run all of your mic lines into the monitor mixer and get them all to the house mixing console as well, you need something to split them. The Mix Wiz doesn't have an on board splitter so somewhere before the monitor mixer, you need a one in - two out split. The fan-fan snake will only take signal from the splitter to the main snake.

 

You can do this passively (i.e. XLR Y-split adapter) but you shouldn't if you can avoid it, primarily because it's a brutal source of ground loop issues. A transformer-based 2-way split is what you should do, but it may be out of your price range.

 

My guess is that your sound engineer has already thought about this and in all likelihood, has a plan.

[burdizzos]

 

It's specifically designed for what they are doing.

[L. Ron Hoover]

 

That mixer is a splitter. It has XLR inputs and throughputs on each channel. Also, the ambient mic is a good idea. If you have room, you should put a few of them around the stage so the band members can easily communicate with each other. Put one up near the singers and one on either side of the stage run only to the monitor mixer and set low in everyone's mix. That way anyone on stage can speak into those mics and be heard by only the people wearing the IEMs.

 

 

 

Ah, so it is. I searched WZ3 16 and got a different version without the split. The model is actually the WZ3 12...

 

Ambient mics are really good for making things sound a bit more natural if you have enough inputs. I've often also used reverb in IEMs to add a bit of "room" sound.

[L. Ron Hoover]

It's specifically designed for what they are doing.

 

Yep, I figured that out.

 

Passive split though. Very likely to cause ground loop issues.

[burdizzos]

Yep, I figured that out. Passive split though. Very likely to cause ground loop issues.

 

I'm sure there's a L/\// product that can fix it.

[gspointer]

FWIW I used a passive split for years without issue. I carried an extension cord that would have allowed me to use the same AC circuit as FOH but never needed it. As long as he has no need for phantom power, I doubt he will have any issues.

[fastplant]

I used to use IEMs at every show. But got lazy and have been using the monitor wedges at a lot of shows only because asking the sound guy to do anything extra than he usually does is like asking him to hold a boulder over his head. It's less stress, but I think I am going to go back to using them. I loved them when I used them.

 

I never used an ambient mic. At first it takes a little to get used to, but I'm fine with them now.

[Thunderbroom]

Talking with our soundguy, he's suggesting it may be easier for sound engineers.

 

We drop our rack on the stage. Everyone connects themselves to the monitor mixer and we patch the monitor mixer to the FOH snake. We're responsible for the onstage mix; the engineer is responsible for the FOH. He'll get no yelling from the stage of "more me in my monitor" anymore.

[L. Ron Hoover]

 

Talking with our soundguy, he's suggesting it may be easier for sound engineers. We drop our rack on the stage. Everyone connects themselves to the monitor mixer and we patch the monitor mixer to the FOH snake. We're responsible for the onstage mix; the engineer is responsible for the FOH. He'll get no yelling from the stage of "more me in my monitor" anymore.

 

 

It's waaaaaay easier for sound engineers, especially in situations where stage volume is an issue. It's so easy to mix a band that's fully IEM. It's totally worth the 3 minutes it takes to set it up. I love to see a band coming with their self-contained IEMs.

 

A band I work for on occasion has even taken to using electric drums on corporate gigs. They don't sound too bad and having total control of the mix in a corporate situation is a big plus.

[DevilRaysFan]

 

It's waaaaaay easier for sound engineers, especially in situations where stage volume is an issue.

 

 

it can be a blessing and a curse...theres been a few times that the band plays louder than normal onstage..........

[Craig Vecchione]

Yeah, the 12M is passive but it does have ground lifts, which help somewhat in the event of ground loops. It really should have isolated splits. What you need is 1:1 isolation transformers for ideally every send, but as a minimum, for any channel that uses phantom power (you can really damage some mixers by having phantom present at their inputs...they can dish it out, but can't take it). Contact Agedhorse via PM for info on getting some 1:1 tranny's.

[Thunderbroom]

Finally got a complete quote: ~$8500

 

We're going for it!

[burdizzos]

Rock!

[RSBro]

Good move! I love IEM's also.

 

Did you already purchase the Shure E5's for you and the drummer? How much do those run? I wholeheartedly recommend the UM2's from Westone. I did the research and read reviews before I got my first pair, and the UM2's won in price and performance against whatever Shure's were on the market at the time (about 2 years ago).

[Thunderbroom]

Everyone (seven of us) is getting the E5's. They tend to be $399 at places like MF. We're getting them for $219.

[RSBro]

 

Everyone (seven of us) is getting the E5's. They tend to be $399 at places like MF. We're getting them for $219.

 

 

While I still like the UM2's, that's a heckuva deal!

[Thunderbroom]

Here's what we're getting:

 

5 - Shure PSM 400 Receiver Only

4 - Shure PSM 400 Transmitter Only

2 - Shure Hard-Wired PSM400

7 - Shure E5 Dual Driver Earbuds

1 - Allen & Heath 16 Ch. IEM Mixer

1 - Road Ready 12U Slant Top Rack with 8U Vertical

1 - ETA Power Conditioner with Lights

1 - Australian Monitor 8 Ch. Mic Line Rack Mount Mixer

2 - EWI 4 Ch. Mic Splitter

4 - Conquest 3' Line Cable

14 - Conquest 3

[y-o-y]

 

Here's what we're getting:   5 - Shure PSM 400 Receiver Only 4 - Shure PSM 400 Transmitter Only 2 - Shure Hard-Wired PSM400 7 - Shure E5 Dual Driver Earbuds 1 - Allen & Heath 16 Ch. IEM Mixer 1 - Road Ready 12U Slant Top Rack with 8U Vertical 1 - ETA Power Conditioner with Lights 1 - Australian Monitor 8 Ch. Mic Line Rack Mount Mixer 2 - EWI 4 Ch. Mic Splitter 4 - Conquest 3' Line Cable 14 - Conquest 3