Two Ampeg 410HE ?

[Catalin]

Hello people !

I have a Trace Elliot V-Type all tube head - 220W and 2 cabs: ampeg 410he and a custom made (ported) cabinet with Eminence BP102. The problem is that i don't like the sound of the ported cabinet: too much low mud.

I like very much the sound of the 41he especially when using a slightly distorted sound (punchy, articulate,clear) but used as stand alone the cab starts to fart out at high volumes.

Do you think that if i buy another 410he the two cabs together will hold on better at high volumes?

And another question: is there a problem if i turn the horn all the way down - i don't like the sound of horn loaded cabs

especially when i use a distorted sound.

I play metal music (pickstile) and i have a Warwick streamer LX 5 strings bass.

Tnks!

[Ender_rpm]

I think you'd probably be fine. The 410HE doesn't kick out the low LOW bass like some others, but its a very mid friendly cab, as you noticed. I almost recommend going with an 810, but if you prefer the 2 cab set up, I think you'd be fine.

[wades_keys]

The good thing about the 410HE is it fits in the back seat of a car.....

 

The HLF and the 8x10 are too thick to even get through the door of a large sedan.

[Catalin]

The good thing about the 410HE is it fits in the back seat of a car..... The HLF and the 8x10 are too thick to even get through the door of a large sedan.

 

That is the main reason i prefer 2 4x10 cabs. If we have a small gig i will take just one 4x10 a 8x10 will be too much.

I wish i had the money to buy a 8x10 and two 4x10

I there anyone who uses 2 Ampeg 410HE, how do they compare to Ampeg 810E ?

[wades_keys]

That is the main reason i prefer 2 4x10 cabs. If we have a small gig i will take just one 4x10 a 8x10 will be too much. I wish i had the money to buy a 8x10 and two 4x10 I there anyone who uses 2 Ampeg 410HE, how do they compare to Ampeg 810E ?

I use a 410HE sitting on top of an old Kustom 1x15 ported cab for the "big dumb rock" band.

 

You need a bigger amp bro - 220 watts split into two cabs ain't gonna cut it.

 

Feed that sucker 500 watts @ 8 ohms, it'll handle it and it won't fart out on you.

 

Of course if you run 2 of the 410's, your total impedance will be @ 4 ohms.....check your amps specs to make sure it can handle that (you may need to flip an impedance selector)

 

Either way dude if I were you, I'd upgrade your amp before getting another cab.

 

I think what's happening is your AMP is farting out on you at high volumes - you're probably clipping it.

 

Trust me man, if you want more clarity at higher volume, you're gonna need more watts than 220.

 

(I'm running 500 watts@ 8 ohms into mine, paralled with the 15 so it's only seeing half of that power, and I've cranked it all the way with no farting (but that's too damn loud on the stage - I have a DI to the FOH)

 

I've also run my amp bridged at 1000 watts into both cabs and still got all the volume I needed - more than I needed in fact.)

[Catalin]

My amp is all tube so 220W is loud enough. The amp has the same output on 8 ohms and 4 ohms, it has a switch on the back.

[wades_keys]

 

My amp is all tube so 220W is loud enough. The amp has the same output on 8 ohms and 4 ohms, it has a switch on the back.

 

No it's not loud enough.

 

Go ahead and get another cab and see for yourself then; just trying to help you out mang.

 

You're gonna have 110 watts going into each of the 2 4x10's.

 

Dude, that cab will not "fart out" at 220 watts - I've run mine full bore at 500 watts with no farting to speak of.

 

Your amp is out of headroom, and you ain't gonna fix that by adding another cab.

[Catalin]

What amp do you have?

[wades_keys]

 

What amp do you have?

 

 

I use a sansamp RBI into a QSC RMX 2450 clone....

 

(it's a behringer EP series amp - I'm almost embarassed to admit I use it but it did very well in bench testing under load, and it's been very reliable for a year now)

[Crescent Seven]

 

No it's not loud enough. Go ahead and get another cab and see for yourself then; just trying to help you out mang. You're gonna have 110 watts going into each of the 2 4x10's. Dude, that cab will not "fart out" at 220 watts - I've run mine full bore at 500 watts with no farting to speak of. Your amp is out of headroom, and you ain't gonna fix that by adding another cab.

 

 

In alot of cases, I think people mistake a clipping amp for their cab not handling the power it's getting.

I have an Avatar 2x10 that sounds like ass when you feed it 180w and turn the amp up loud enough to hear yourself over the drums. When you give it 480w and do the same thing, it thumps like crazy.

 

Catalin, I think you'll get a better sound, and less farting, if you cut some of the lows out at the EQ, and boost the low mids instead. That low bass signal gobbles up alot of your power, so by using less of the lows and accentuating the mids, you'll get more volume and less distortion. 220w in a tube amp is generally enough to get you heard, but you have to EQ it properly to get a good amount of volume. Plus, doing it that way will make your tone much punchier through a sealed cab, and will eliminate some of the flubby boom in the ported cab.

C7

[wades_keys]

 

In alot of cases, I think people mistake a clipping amp for their cab not handling the power it's getting. I have an Avatar 2x10 that sounds like ass when you feed it 180w and turn the amp up loud enough to hear yourself over the drums. When you give it 480w and do the same thing, it thumps like crazy. Catalin, I think you'll get a better sound, and less farting, if you cut some of the lows out at the EQ, and boost the low mids instead. That low bass signal gobbles up alot of your power, so by using less of the lows and accentuating the mids, you'll get more volume and less distortion. 220w in a tube amp is generally enough to get you heard, but you have to EQ it properly to get a good amount of volume. Plus, doing it that way will make your tone much punchier through a sealed cab, and will eliminate some of the flubby boom in the ported cab. C7

 

 

Good point about the EQ, and very true.

 

He should try that first, because it costs him nothing to do.

 

I still think he will wind up needing a more powerful amp though.

 

And you're dead right about the power handling - I know from experience that the 410HE can easily handle 500 watts without any breakup; it's program-rated at 500 watts and perhaps more importantly, I've run it in that configuration for almost a year now.

[Crescent Seven]

Good point about the EQ, and very true. He should try that first, because it costs him nothing to do. I still think he will wind up needing a more powerful amp though.

 

Well, more power is always a fantastic answer, so we can go with that.

 

For the time being though, if he manages the power he has properly, he can get alot more volume, while at the same time making his tone nice and punchy. That's one thing I love about most tube amps, you can boost your mids without it turning into a honk-fest, and with sealed cabs, you can use 250hz signals to destroy clubs and damage eardums.

C7

[wades_keys]

Well, more power is always a fantastic answer, so we can go with that. For the time being though, if he manages the power he has properly, he can get alot more volume, while at the same time making his tone nice and punchy. That's one thing I love about most tube amps, you can boost your mids without it turning into a honk-fest, and with sealed cabs, you can use 250hz signals to destroy clubs and damage eardums. C7

 

Truth. It's worth a shot anyway.

 

He could still be dealing with recto sag (does this amp have a tube recto?)

 

At any rate I think it's safe to say that the WRONG answer is to buy another 410HE....not that he won't get SOME benefit from this, but I doubt it will solve the problem as described.

[Catalin]

I keep my bass knob at 0. But my eq is passive, bass can only be boosted.

[Crescent Seven]

Truth. It's worth a shot anyway. He could still be dealing with recto sag (does this amp have a tube recto?) At any rate I think it's safe to say that the WRONG answer is to buy another 410HE....not that he won't get SOME benefit from this, but I doubt it will solve the problem as described.

 

I agree, but all things equal, if he's simply looking for more volume, another cab will do it for him. But for the same amount of money he could probably land a more powerful amp to accomplish the same thing.

 

There's a club that I play at regularly that has a gigantic stage that's 4' high, and hollow underneath. I can blast my 4x10 to the point that the sound man is getting pissed, and I still can't hear myself. For shows at that club, I always bring a second cab. Everyone that's not a bass player clowns me for it, but every bassist I know that's played there more than once does the same thing I do. I think it has more to do with getting some speakers closer to my head than it does with my amp (1001rbII) not being loud enough, though...

C7

[wades_keys]

I agree, but all things equal, if he's simply looking for more volume, another cab will do it for him. But for the same amount of money he could probably land a more powerful amp to accomplish the same thing. There's a club that I play at regularly that has a gigantic stage that's 4' high, and hollow underneath. I can blast my 4x10 to the point that the sound man is getting pissed, and I still can't hear myself. For shows at that club, I always bring a second cab. Everyone that's not a bass player clowns me for it, but every bassist I know that's played there more than once does the same thing I do. I think it has more to do with getting some speakers closer to my head than it does with my amp (1001rbII) not being loud enough, though... C7

 

Yup, that's why when we play outdoor gigs I stack the 4x10 on top of the 15.

 

I'm a liberal, and I support bass terrorism.

[Crescent Seven]

Yup, that's why when we play outdoor gigs I stack the 4x10 on top of the 15. I'm a liberal, and I support bass terrorism.

 

With this club, if you're running one cab loud enough to hear yourself, you get so much bass gain from that hollow stage that you're making the crowd think they're weightless. If you run a stack you can turn down because you can get some bass pointed at your ears.

 

And I'm a conservative that supports bass terrorism as well. We should form some kind of anarchist christian terror organization, and use bass signals to set off everyone's car alarms at 3am or something.

C7

[wades_keys]

And I'm a conservative that supports bass terrorism as well. We should form some kind of anarchist christian terror organization, and use bass signals to set off everyone's car alarms at 3am or something. C7

TBM - Terrorists of Bass Mayhem.

[Catalin]

[0175westwood29]

 

My amp is all tube so 220W is loud enough. The amp has the same output on 8 ohms and 4 ohms, it has a switch on the back.

 

 

hi man what version trace amp is it the v4?

 

or is it the smaller one, i agree with you i think the 220w is enough, is it a recent problem?

 

im with the eq option as i play in a very loud metal/rock band with a orange half stack(soon to be full when i add a 410) and that 140w all tube, and its fine cuts thru nice in the mix, and if the ampeg's rated to 500w i doubt its the cab.

 

when was the head serviced or had new tubes? im no expert but im wondering if that could be a reason for the farting.

[Catalin]

hi man what version trace amp is it the v4? or is it the smaller one, i agree with you i think the 220w is enough, is it a recent problem? im with the eq option as i play in a very loud metal/rock band with a orange half stack(soon to be full when i add a 410) and that 140w all tube, and its fine cuts thru nice in the mix, and if the ampeg's rated to 500w i doubt its the cab. when was the head serviced or had new tubes? im no expert but im wondering if that could be a reason for the farting.

 

Hello

My amp is an early model. Is practically a V4: 4-KT88 tubes(220W). Back then it was the only model in production and so it was not need to be called V4. Later V6 and V8 have appeared and they called this model V4.

Differences between later V4 models and mine is that mine has no compressor and no overdrive. In my opinion is a very natural sounding amp.

About the farting problem: is not a serious thing, it only appears at very high volumes and when i play with bass boosted.

I want another cab for more definition and headroom

[Poltergeist]

two HE's will give you an infinite midrange dude, go for it

[georgestrings]

 

And I'm a conservative that supports bass terrorism as well. C7

 

 

 

+1...

 

 

 

- georgestrings

[L. Ron Hoover]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that adding a cabinet is a far more effective way to gain volume than upgrading an amp. There's no substitute for speaker area. In this particular situation you'd need to upgrade to a very powerful amp in order to make a noticeable difference with a single cab, plus you'd end up having to drive the cab quite hard. You're better off getting 3dB more SPL by adding an extra cab than by doubling amp power. The speakers will actually perform better with 220W between a pair of cabinets than 500W into one cab will, especially if you're loud, because you'll get less power compression.* The maximum potential SPL from the system will be greater with the 220W amp and a pair of 410HEs than it would be with a 500W amp and a single 410HE.

 

*This affects the maximum SPL of the cab. Most people know that a doubling of power will net a 3dB increase in SPL. This assumes a perfect speaker. All speakers exhibit power compression as you increase the amount of power to them so the 3dB per doubling of power relationship won't hold at higher power levels. Power compression is a loss in driver sensitivity due to heat buildup. In some speakers it begins to set in at not much more than 10% of rated power.

[georgestrings]

 

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that adding a cabinet is a far more effective way to gain volume than upgrading an amp. There's no substitute for speaker area.

 

 

 

I agree - I've always had better luck increasing output by adding speakers rather than throwing watts at the problem... An added benefit is that by having enough speaker area, you usually don't end up pushing anything too close to it's limits - your gear lasts longer that way...

 

 

 

- georgestrings