Major scales, can someone dumb down theory for me?

[willsellout]

So I've been asked to write out all the major scales. I tried it once by fingering the positions and writing the notes down. Turns out that was wrong because apparently there can't be two of the same notes in any scale. So there can't be an A then a#, no it's a B flat. Then there are notes in between B and C and E and F, even though I've always heard there wasn't:facepalm:. well they aren't really notes, they are the same notes but with different names:facepalm:

 

I have tried a few times today to work through all the major scales keeping in mind that certain scales have a certain number of sharps or flats and it takes me forever and most of the time I fail miserably. I just don't really understand how this all is supposed to work and why it works the way it works. Even when I get a scale right I still don't really "get it".

 

Let's take C# for instance, this is what I get

C# D# E# F# G# A# C C#

 

Is that right?

 

And what about F#

F# G# A# B C# D# E# F#

 

is that right? I can't tell and it's so weird to have to name the same notes differently. These are the two scales that are giving me the hardest time for some reason.

 

Any advice?

 

Dan

[catphish]

 

well they aren't really notes, they are the same notes but with different names:facepalm:

 

 

They are actually different notes. For rock situations on tempered instruments they are played the same, but on lots of classical music and on instruments without frets a B# and a C will be played slightly different.

[Optimus Prime]

I'm taking a music theory class in school. I've learned a lot. But all I really remember about scales is that the steps are whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half. I think. I'm not really up for a lot of thought right now.

[catphish]

 

Let's take C# for instance, this is what I get C# D# E# F# G# A# C C# Is that right?

 

 

I think it would be

 

C# D# E# F# G# A# B# C#

[catphish]

 

And what about F# F# G# A# B C# D# E# F# is that right?

 

 

yes.

[jonathan_matos5]

They are actually different notes. For rock situations on tempered instruments they are played the same, but on lots of classical music and on instruments without frets a B# and a C will be played slightly different.

 

not since the even tempered tuning system.

 

 

the B# C thing has to do with key signature.

 

just look at the circle of 5th

 

 

those are the names of the scales note Cb and B (natural) are the same notes but different scale names same with F# and Gb.

 

there are rules that you just must know.

 

 

just remember the pattern whole step whole step half step whole step whole step whole step half step

 

and also remember that each scale starts and ends on the same note one octave apart.

 

ex:

w w h w w w h

C D E F G A B C

 

i hope this helps.

[catphish]

 

For rock situations on tempered instruments they are played the same, but on lots of classical music and on instruments without frets a B# and a C will be played slightly different.

 

 

Again, on untempered instruments they will still, today, be played as different notes.

[Super Bass]

Major scale dumbed down?

 

Whole, Whole, Half, Whole, Whole, Whole, Half.

[catphish]

Major scale dumbed down? Whole, Whole, Half, Whole, Whole, Whole, Half.

 

pretty much.

 

He's talking about notation though. In certain instances it's proper to use a "Bbb" instead of an "A".

[jonathan_matos5]

 

That's what I said. Again, on untempered instruments they will still, today , be played as different notes.

 

 

my bad, you were there who am i to question your experience. :poke:

[catphish]

 

my bad, you were there who am i to question your experience. :poke:

 

 

wut?

 

Are you saying no one, currently, on any instrument will play a A# different than a Bb?

[wades_keys]

 

I think it would be C# D# E# F# G# A# B# C#

 

The key of C# is academic only; in practice one would use the key of Db.

 

That said, I'm sure there's a piece of music out there SOMEWHERE that's written in C#.

 

But yes, you are correct.

[jonathan_matos5]

wut? Are you saying no one, currently, on any instrument will play a A# different than a Bb?

 

its a crack at your age.

 

basically I said you have been around since the Baroque era

 

it isn't funny now that i have to explain it.

 

Damn You Bach!!!!

[willsellout]

OK so explain me this; so you have the sharp side and the flat side. How come it does this

GDAEBF#C#

 

why the F# and C#?

 

then with the flat side you have this:

C F (these being natural?) B E A D G C (the last 6 are flat).

 

How does this work, why are the C and F notes different from everything else?

 

 

Dan

[hi.flyer]

The key of C# is academic only; in practice one would use the key of Db.

 

I think that's going a little too far maybe. Let's say you were in the key of F# and modulated up to the fourth; you wouldn't be in Db, you'd be in C#. Yes, academic, definitely, but it could and DOES happen.

[wades_keys]

Willsellout, here's a little shortcut that might help for scales like C#.

 

If you are 100% sure of the scale a half step BELOW, then just sharp each of those notes.

[BeeTL]

wut? Are you saying no one, currently, on any instrument will play a A# different than a Bb?

I believe that IS what he said.

 

Bitch.

 

 

:poke:

 

[jonathan_matos5]

 

OK so explain me this; so you have the sharp side and the flat side. How come it does this GDAEB F#C# why the F# and C#? then with the flat side you have this: C F (these being natural?) B E A D G C (the last 6 are flat). How does this work, why are the C and F notes different from everything else? Dan

 

 

enharmonic note names. F#=Gb C#= Db E#= F etc

 

the circle of fiths theoretically goes on forever overlapping on itself.

[catphish]

 

The key of C# is academic only; in practice one would use the key of Db.

 

 

Not always.

 

If a composer is working in a key with sharps, and changes keys to C#/Db it would, in practice, be more probably be appropriate to use C#.

 

(I think)

[catphish]

its a crack at your age. basically I said you have been around since the Baroque era it isn't funny now that i have to explain it. Damn You Bach!!!!

 

Ah....

 

I Bach

[jonathan_matos5]

Ah.... I Bach

 

i didn't know you and he were close, but i suppose in his day he had all sorts of groupies.

[wades_keys]

 

OK so explain me this; so you have the sharp side and the flat side. How come it does this GDAEB F#C# why the F# and C#?

 

Because they are fifths....

 

Same with the flat side.

 

In the key of B: count up five notes in the major scale: it's F#.

 

In the key of F#: count up five notes in the major scale: it's C#

 

Same with the flat keys.

 

Basically the fifths above are relative to the fourths below; they don't "stand alone", they relate to their predecessor and it's defined key signature.

[wades_keys]

 

Not always. If a composer is working in a key with sharps, and changes keys to C#/Db it would, in practice, be more probably be appropriate to use C#. (I think)

 

Likely true, but not often seen in practice and most definitely not in line with what Dan is asking.

 

Then again, that reasoning is more Jazz based (my reason for shunning C#) - it's a valid key, technically.

 

But man it's a bitch to read a piece in C#.

[jonathan_matos5]

 

Likely true, but not often seen in practice and most definitely not in line with what Dan is asking.

 

 

 

oddly enough in orchestra music i have seen stuff written in C# and for wind band the same music in Db

[wades_keys]

 

oddly enough in orchestra music i have seen stuff written in C# and for wind band the same music in Db

 

 

Right - I'm no composer and not very up on notational conventions, but I have read that there is some leeway involved in terms of ease of reading.

 

It could be so because wind instruments are in flat keys: Bb trumpet, etc....

 

Hell I played trumpet for several years but I was just reading off the charts, same as most everyone else.