Members bassman1956 Posted November 9, 2008 Members Share Posted November 9, 2008 While we're talking energy, just curious. I've got forced hot air in a ranch with basement, 1400sq ft, 90% eff. furnace about 10 years old, and an atrocious 30 year old gas heater for the garage/workshop, and even worse 25 year old A/C unit out back. The 2 things I can do this next year to really benefit things is to replace the A/C unit (tech says it's shot anyways, "don't even lean on it!"), and get a better workshop heater. But for the house, not worth it yet unless there's a big savings on energy. I'd still need the forced air system for the A/C. Anyone done this swap? Forced air to radiant floor heat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 9, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 If you need both a new heater (90% and 10 y/o, probably not really) and new flooring, and have plenty to invest, then it's worthwhile. Otherwise, replace the AC, upgrade the workshop heater, and invest the rest in insulation and window upgrades, which will make a real difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted November 9, 2008 Members Share Posted November 9, 2008 Otherwise, replace the AC, upgrade the workshop heater, and invest the rest in insulation and window upgrades, which will make a real difference. +1 We did just that at our house a few years ago and it has made a huge difference in our energy consumption and overall comfort within the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcrow Posted November 9, 2008 Members Share Posted November 9, 2008 invest the rest in insulation and window upgrades, which will make a real difference. this is where you really save and conserve we had all our windows replaced with solar reflecting glass and the loft...erm attic..we are in a bungalow...topped up to 8-10" of insulation the cavity walls are filled with insulation as well...although a bit long in the tooth i still think its working sorry i cant comment on your heating part but upgrading existing equipment which is already connected to the heating system is the way i would go..and in my case...old boiler..furnace..is what i would do for my own situation...and renew the radiators or at least have them purged for deposits etc and then put a good mix of inhibutor into the sytem...wet system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knuckle_head Posted November 9, 2008 Members Share Posted November 9, 2008 You could look in to a heat pump to augment the existing heat in your AC replacement.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 9, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 You could look in to a heat pump to augment the existing heat in your AC replacement.... While they definitely work, whether it's an efficient solution depends heavily on the local weather heat pumps lose efficiency the closer to 32F it is outside....he's in a pretty cold area, which reduces the number of days the heat pump will be a good choice to use. The advantage is that it's relatively inexpensive to add reverse-cycle heating to an AC system, so it's not a gigantic expense. I just see a lot of people buy heat pumps in cold climates and then wonder why they have an astronomical electric bill. The worst situation is having only a heat pump with "emergency" resistive grids in a northern clime. You'll need to work a second job to pay that bill..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassman1956 Posted November 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2008 Thanks all. Burdz, I want to know more!(Edit: Sorry, I misunderstood...) As for installation, it would be easy, as I can get to every square inch of sub-floor from below, so it would be like new home installation that way. But like you said, 10-year-old furnace, at 90% eff, maybe wait. As for other improvements: One reason I bought this place is because major work getting "there" was not required: the brick exterior was super tight; the windows and doors are newer, all Pellas or Andersons, good stuff; there already was plenty of extra insulation in the attic and walls; etc. So there isn't much at all to be gained that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members burdizzos Posted November 9, 2008 Members Share Posted November 9, 2008 The big savings for us was the AC upgrade. We went from an undersized 10 SEER unit to a correctly sized 13 SEER unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassman1956 Posted November 9, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 9, 2008 Yeah, the AC upgrade will help immensely during the summer. Should be huge! Winter, however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted November 9, 2008 CMS Author Share Posted November 9, 2008 Thanks all. Burdz, I want to know more!(Edit: Sorry, I misunderstood...)As for installation, it would be easy, as I can get to every square inch of sub-floor from below, so it would be like new home installation that way. But like you said, 10-year-old furnace, at 90% eff, maybe wait. As for other improvements: One reason I bought this place is because major work getting "there" was not required: the brick exterior was super tight; the windows and doors are newer, all Pellas or Andersons, good stuff; there already was plenty of extra insulation in the attic and walls; etc. So there isn't much at all to be gained that way. While under-floor access is helpful, it's not needed at all. You basically rip out the finish floor, and install either a hydronic tube system, or electic grids on the subfloor. A new finish floor is then installed atop this. With good planning, minimal subfloor intrusion is needed. All told, probably a good $15 sq ft cost minimum. It doesn't offer any efficiency benefits over a conventional hydronic or electric system. It's strictly about aesthetics (no radiators or air registers) and comfort (warm floors are amazingy wonderful in the winter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted November 9, 2008 Members Share Posted November 9, 2008 My sister lives in a large hand-built home in Maine and they use that system throughout. It's nice even heat with no dust blowing around. It's propane fueled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Don MC Posted November 9, 2008 Members Share Posted November 9, 2008 While they definitely work, whether it's an efficient solution depends heavily on the local weather heat pumps lose efficiency the closer to 32F it is outside....he's in a pretty cold area, which reduces the number of days the heat pump will be a good choice to use. The advantage is that it's relatively inexpensive to add reverse-cycle heating to an AC system, so it's not a gigantic expense. I just see a lot of people buy heat pumps in cold climates and then wonder why they have an astronomical electric bill. The worst situation is having only a heat pump with "emergency" resistive grids in a northern clime. You'll need to work a second job to pay that bill..... I beg to differ. I live in a cold climate and I have some experience in the matter. Around here we get down to about -20 degrees Celsius (about 0 F) during the winter, and our heat pump works just fine and is saving us money. It will be efficient to down around those temperatures. We have resistive heaters as backup. On the other hand, oil/gas prices over here are very high and there's no much difference in cost whether you heat your house with oil or direct electricity. Therefore a lot of houses are heated with direct electricity (resistive heater panels).BTW, the heat pump works as an A/C during the hot summer days. Handy. Do you have stuff like heat exchangers built into your air circulation? It is very common here. It preheats the incoming fresh air with heat from the exiting stale air. Yet one form of saving some money (and living more comfortably). And there are things like earth/ground heat pumps as well. They amplify the heat they collect in long tubes dug into the ground. Converting air distributed heating to water distributed underfloor heating can be very expensive. I'd stick with the existing distribution system and upgrade the heat source itself (the furnace). I'd do calculations on oil/gas prices vs. electrical prices and of course compare the costs on different new systems. My heat pump cost me just over 1000 euros and I must say I really like it. I just wish it would heat my tap water as well (electrically heated). Next on my list is better insulation above the ceiling. I have a cold attic and I'm going to add a few inches to its floor insulation (my indoor ceiling insulation) with the stuff you just blow in through a hose. It will put me back around 500 euros, but I will save those bucks in just a few years. Edit: Insulation is where everything starts. Make sure your house is sealed and well insulated. No leaks anywhere. Even a small draft from a broken window seal etc will make a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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