2 bass cabinets on both sides of stage

[Mikoo69]

what are the pros and cons of setting up my 2 bass cabinets on both sides of the stage/drummer. this would allow both guitarists in my band to hear and feel the bass better, and stay locked in the pocket.

 

anyone ever done this.

 

pros cons?

 

one of my guitarists needs to hear me better on stage cause he stands on the opposite side, and most sound engineers dont give us great monitor mixes.

[Kindness]

Con: You're going to get a more controllable dispersion from stacking the cabs than separating them horizontally. This will lead to excessive comb filtering.

 

I set my cabinet up to fire cross stage. This allows everyone to hear me with me being in the monitor mix.

[Crescent Seven]

Con: You're going to get a more controllable dispersion from stacking the cabs than separating them horizontally. This will lead to excessive comb filtering. I set my cabinet up to fire cross stage. This allows everyone to hear me with me being in the monitor mix.

 

+1. Unless you're moving all the way across the stage during your set, you won't get any real benefit from that setup. And despite what they tell you and what you might believe, your guitarists don't want to hear you.

 

This is why I set my stack up as a sidefill and crank that {censored}er, because {censored} my guitar player, he's gonna hear me whether he likes it or not.

 

Honestly, the soundman will thank you for setting up as a sidefill, and you'll be much more comfortable.

C7

[Mikoo69]

actually, my guitarist is the one who suggested it. apparently at the last show he walked over to my side of the stage and plyed there for 10 minutes and said he loved feeling the bass and it made him play better. he wants more bass on his side of the stage.

[Crescent Seven]

actually, my guitarist is the one who suggested it. apparently at the last show he walked over to my side of the stage and plyed there for 10 minutes and said he loved feeling the bass and it made him play better. he wants more bass on his side of the stage.

 

A better solution would be to set up as a sidefill, and have the soundman add more bass in his monitor.

 

I realize that it's not quite the same, but your ability to hear yourself is going to suffer (that's why you play a stack, right?) if one of your cabs is on the other side of the stage, and the comb filtering issue that Jerkness alluded to will come into play. Your audience won't like that, even though they won't really be able to put their finger on what's wrong with the sound; you'll sound weird FOH, basically. And the soundman might take exception to you setting it up that way.

 

Furthermore, it's a pain in the ass to run a long speaker cable across the stage.

C7

[Guttermouth]

a band i was in used to do this ( 1 guitar,1bass.drums, vocals) and had good results. i ran 1 x412 on each side and the bass player ran 1x15 on each side. we usually stacked them and angled them in slightly to help push the drums out ( everything was in a shell shape)

granted, we were playing {censored}ty clubs with minimal p.a.'s but we never had a problem hearing each other and always sounded full.

in retrospect if we had any sort of pa system it wouldn't matter where or how we set up - just keep the stage volume in check and let the soundguy do his job

[Crescent Seven]

in retrospect if we had any sort of pa system it wouldn't matter where or how we set up - just keep the stage volume in check and let the soundguy do his job

 

Man, you should stand on stage at a couple of the clubs in town here. They have gigantic PA's and I still insist on bringing my full stack, 2x12+4x10 and 700w of power. One in particular basically refuses to put anything but guitars and vocals in the monitors, at 130db. I had my full stack and I tried to keep my volume reasonable, but standing 5 feet away, I couldn't hear myself at all. After suffering through 3 songs, I told him to turn my monitor off completely and I let my rig {censored}in' rip. Never been happier at this club, and for all subsequent gigs, I will be telling the soundman "thanks but go {censored} yourself".

C7

[isaac42]

 

Con: You're going to get a more controllable dispersion from stacking the cabs than separating them horizontally. This will lead to excessive comb filtering. I set my cabinet up to fire cross stage. This allows everyone to hear me with me being in the monitor mix.

 

 

I know that's the case in theory. In practice, I've never noticed it, and have got good results from putting a cabinet on either side of the drummer. Of course, it worked best when I was running the Ric stereo!

[L-1329]

 

Con: You're going to get a more controllable dispersion from stacking the cabs than separating them horizontally. This will lead to excessive comb filtering. I set my cabinet up to fire cross stage. This allows everyone to hear me with me being in the monitor mix.

 

 

Comb filtering?

[Crescent Seven]

Comb filtering?

 

That's when your strain the little chunks of unburned weed out of you bongwater using your dad's comb.

C7

[Kindness]

Comb filtering?

 

Because you no longer have a single point source (or a good approximation of one) you get constructive and destructive interference resulting in peaks and valleys in the output as you move horizontally in the sound field. In the crowd, some people get blasted and some people get a much weaker signal. Ick. Isaac is correct though that in many cases it makes little difference, as room acoustics are even worse that the comb filtering in most places we play. .

 

FYI - You may have done something like this in physics courses where you use the wave properties of light particles to create a comb filter resulting in darker and brighter spots along an area that both lights shine, visually demonstrating the constructive and destructive interference.

[L-1329]

Because you no longer have a single point source (or a good approximation of one) you get constructive and destructive interference resulting in peaks and valleys in the output as you move horizontally in the sound field. In the crowd, some people get blasted and some people get a much weaker signal. Ick. Isaac is correct though that in many cases it makes little difference, as room acoustics are even worse that the comb filtering in most places we play. . FYI - You may have done something like this in physics courses where you use the wave properties of light particles to create a comb filter resulting in darker and brighter spots along an area that both lights shine, visually demonstrating the constructive and destructive interference.

 

Got it, thanks.

[Crescent Seven]

Because you no longer have a single point source (or a good approximation of one) you get constructive and destructive interference resulting in peaks and valleys in the output as you move horizontally in the sound field. In the crowd, some people get blasted and some people get a much weaker signal. Ick. Isaac is correct though that in many cases it makes little difference, as room acoustics are even worse that the comb filtering in most places we play. . FYI - You may have done something like this in physics courses where you use the wave properties of light particles to create a comb filter resulting in darker and brighter spots along an area that both lights shine, visually demonstrating the constructive and destructive interference.

 

My description was better.

[Kindness]

My description was better.

 

No argument here.

[Renfield]

Been there, done that. Many many many many of the big bands I worked for over the years did this too. It can be done right, and easily. The ideal situation is when you can send a signal to the other side of the stage and have a amp and cab on the other side. That way the guitarist can set his own volume. And if you play large enough venues, it's not terribly uncommon to drop a half stack and head on your side of the stage, done that too. It also allows you to EQ their tone to sit better with yours, and not interfere with the way they sound to everyone else.

 

I swear some of the quietest stages I played on had the most amps. It wasn't about more power, it was about keeping your level in check because it only has to be for you, and only on the back half of the stage. There is monitors to cover the front half, your amps is only for the back. It's all just a monitoring system in the end when you're taking a DI straight from the head and a mic from a single 12" speaker. What you hear and the crowd are two very different things.

 

Plexiglass drum shields are a godsend too, I may add.

[Bedbug Eddie]

I have done it many times....mostly at outdoor gigs. A 4x10 on my side and a 1x15 or 2x10 on the other. I like it and it seemingly makes the band sound "bigger" somehow. Of course ALOT has to do with how you are providing the sound thru the mains and monitors etc....my 'guitar gods' ; ) have always really liked it.

[isaac42]

And when you think about it, the comb filtering should be less of a problem than when the bass is going through the mains, with speakers on each side of the stage. That's standard procedure, and no one seems to mind.

[Kindness]

 

And when you think about it, the comb filtering should be less of a problem than when the bass is going through the mains, with speakers on each side of the stage. That's standard procedure, and no one seems to mind.

 

 

Standard procedure for poorly designed installations, no doubt. And you are definitely right, no one seems to mind.

[isaac42]

 

Standard procedure for poorly designed installations, no doubt. And you are definitely right, no one seems to mind.

 

 

The bass doesn't go through the mains in well-designed installations?

[Renfield]

Standard procedure for poorly designed installations, no doubt. And you are definitely right, no one seems to mind.

 

Most people in the crowd don't know why the sound isn't good, or quieter on a given spot on the floor, they just know that it sounds good or bad. For everyone short of the band and FOH engineer, sound tends to be pretty black and white.

 

And when the FOH or system tech has issues with it and doesn't know what to do to correct it, they call me.

[nAmzrTakin]

If you're gonna do that keep your speaker lead well away from the drummer's stool. I was running a cab either side of the drum kit and when the drummer shifted his stool back after a song he yanked out my cable. And also I found that if you're running a 115 cab with a 410 and you split them up you get a different sound coming out of each side of the stage, neither as good as the one you'll get with a stack.

[Renfield]

If you're gonna do that keep your speaker lead well away from the drummer's stool. I was running a cab either side of the drum kit and when the drummer shifted his stool back after a song he yanked out my cable. And also I found that if you're running a 115 cab with a 410 and you split them up you get a different sound coming out of each side of the stage, neither as good as the one you'll get with a stack.

 

Wait... you get a different sound from a single 15 in front of you versus a 410 versus a 410/115 stack? Seriously? Damn.

 

 

And about the drummer unplugging it... I was hoping that you were going to say that his stool touched the jack after and he got a shock up his ass.

[nAmzrTakin]

Wait... you get a different sound from a single 15 in front of you versus a 410 versus a 410/115 stack? Seriously? Damn. And about the drummer unplugging it... I was hoping that you were going to say that his stool touched the jack after and he got a shock up his ass.

 

If I run my usual stack. Hartke XL115 + XL410 I can hear the fullest punchiest sound. If i just run the 115 I get butloads of low and it's punchy but I lose the good high and mid stuff I get out of my 410. Same as if I only ran the 410 I'd lose the low end. Granted you'd probably still get it out in the crowd. But as a player it just don't sound right.

 

And I wish it shocked his ass

[Renfield]

 

If I run my usual stack. Hartke XL115 + XL410 I can hear the fullest punchiest sound. If i just run the 115 I get butloads of low and it's punchy but I lose the good high and mid stuff I get out of my 410. Same as if I only ran the 410 I'd lose the low end. Granted you'd probably still get it out in the crowd. But as a player it just don't sound right. And I wish it shocked his ass

 

 

Ahh, I get you now.

 

Odds are the crowd will still hear things the same. What you are experiencing is some sonic cancellations from two different cabs producing the same frequencies. This is why PA's use crossovers.

 

Try this some time in rehearsal if you can... plug both cabs directly to the amp, no daisy chaining. Then have a friend unplug one or the other, and don't focus on the volume, but the tone and notes you hear and how. Sure, we all know that different speakers in cabs sound different, but this shows you how they interact together. Some cabs just don't work well together, even from the same brand or series. They should, but don't always.

 

Now try the exact same experiment but rotate your 410 on its side. Connect, one, then the other, then both.

 

Now again with the 410 on the bottom, etc. One orientation will work better for your rig, even if it doesn't stack "proper" in doing.

 

This right here is why you should never feel weird about mixing and matching brands or series.

 

FYI - When I ran a Hartke XL rig back in the day, the 410.5 was on the bottom of the 115 and on a slight angle. It just sounded better, less cancellation.

 

I've also got great results from a 2x12 (speakers diagonal to one another) on its side with an 8x8 directly on top of it. But right side up, the 2x12 was better off unplugged. There was so much cancellation, it was quieter plugged in than not.