Finding your band's niche Vs taking all gigs you can.

[Sugarskull]

I'd like to start this thread to hear some advice from those of you have found your own successful niche's and to see if anyone has had an experience where they have turned down gigs because it was contrary to their band image or... oh I dont know what I'm trying to say. Here's the long explanation:

 

 

STFF's thread about doing an acoustic show at a retail outlet location rather than a stage with a goth band got me thinking a bit. Playing a store seems a bit out of their nature to me. Also, being relatively clean cut and sober my band, The Razors, are starting to get more calls to come do charity work and corporate Christmas parties etc...

 

I can't figure out why it gives me such an unsettling feeling to play Charity fundraisers, weddings, corporate parties, backyard hootenannies and Holiday celebrations. It just seems so contrary to what we 'the band' are. Not that I'm against any of those things, I'd just rather be in the audience than on stage for them. Is that wrong? Isn't a gig is a gig is a gig? What's wrong with me?

 

Does anyone else feel this way or am I out of line?

[nAmzrTakin]

I'm all about the live gig. Seriously I'd play for 2 people in a public toilet if it meant playing my jam.

 

I have had some experience with guy's who want, and I quote "Less but better gigs" to which I replied. "Who the {censored} do you think you are? We're nothing, no one and will continue to be if we don't take every opportunity to be heard"

 

He quit and now we play every gig we're offered.

 

It's easy to picture you band as rock stars but the reality is that you'll never do anything if you don't sell yourself to the fullest.

[Sugarskull]

 

It's easy to picture you band as rock stars but the reality is that you'll never do anything if you don't sell yourself to the fullest.

 

 

Fair enough.

 

But to futher the question, if you're known as that band that played the breast cancer fundraiser for free at club A and played the keep kittens off the street fundraiser for free at club B, played a kid's Birthday party, played your buddies BBQ party. Does Club C who normally pays a band $2000 for a full night then feel ripped off? The whole 'why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free' idea kind of runs through my mind at that point.

 

I run the risk of sounding like a total asshat to you, which I don't intend, So please don't get me wrong. I know my gigs don't come falling out of the sky or anything- I still have to work hard- but I'm wondering if I'm devaluing my fellow players by making them play for free?

[nAmzrTakin]

Is your band your job? If you're doing it for money then you're probably better served taking paying gigs obviously. If you're trying to get heard and played (radio, CD sales) then you're only gonna be benifitted to be seen as a band that'll do anything for their listeners.

 

By your logic of "Word gets around." My policy of play whenever you have the opportunity serves just as well.

 

I'm not talking about begging for gigs I'm talking about maximum exposure.

[Crescent Seven]

I'm all about the live gig. Seriously I'd play for 2 people in a public toilet if it meant playing my jam. I have had some experience with guy's who want, and I quote "Less but better gigs" to which I replied. "Who the {censored} do you think you are? We're nothing, no one and will continue to be if we don't take every opportunity to be heard" He quit and now we play every gig we're offered. It's easy to picture you band as rock stars but the reality is that you'll never do anything if you don't sell yourself to the fullest.

 

At the same time, playing too many gigs has the effect of either watering down, or wearing out your audience. This problem is particularly bad for bands like Sugarskull's and my band, because we live in big cities.....in the middle of {censored}ing nowhere.

 

If my band plays more than once or twice a month, we wont draw to ANY of our shows, because 1/3 of every potential audience will say to themselves "oh, hell, they're playing again in a week, I'll just go to that show."

 

What we have to do in Denver is, play once a month, but promote the holy {censored} out of the shows. If you don't get quality gig offers, just don't play the show, rather than ask your friends to come to a total {censored}hole or make them sit through a horrendous lineup to see you.

 

On to Eve's question, I think the charity gigs and corporate parties can help you and hurt you. On one hand, you get to expose yourself...ahem...your music to a whole group of people that have never heard of you and wouldn't necessarily come to a show offhand. On the other hand, you can end up getting typecast as a "function" band. You'll also start to see more requests to play other charity gigs.

 

I'd say, play one charity gig a year, and make sure it's for a cause you really stand behind, and play one corporate gig a year, the one for the most money. Other things, like parties, hootenannies, etc, sort of work against you as a professional originals band, which is something I think you know and is why you're unsettled by it. A "gig" is not a gig unless it fits with the overall mode of the band.

C7

[82Daion]

We took a few benefit-type gigs when we were first starting out, and we still take a crap gig every now and again for exposure's sake. What we've learned from all that is what bars and what crowds we play the best with/at/for, and so we then know where to play to draw best/make money. So we found our niche by taking all the gigs we could. Now that we know where to play, we can be more selective.

[Kindness]

 

Fair enough. But to futher the question, if you're known as that band that played the breast cancer fundraiser for free at club A and played the keep kittens off the street fundraiser for free at club B, played a kid's Birthday party, played your buddies BBQ party. Does Club C who normally pays a band $2000 for a full night then feel ripped off? The whole 'why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free' idea kind of runs through my mind at that point. I run the risk of sounding like a total asshat to you, which I don't intend, So please don't get me wrong. I know my gigs don't come falling out of the sky or anything- I still have to work hard- but I'm wondering if I'm devaluing my fellow players by making them play for free?

 

 

You are. There are ways around it though. Don't play for free, play for a contribution to the charity. If Club C normally pays you 2k, make someone pony up 2k for you to play at Club A for the benefit. Alternatively, structure a contract such that you play for free if they raise $X,XXX for the charity via the portion of the door you might otherwise get, but if they don't pass a minimum threshold, they have to come up with the contribution themselves. Once you start playing for free, you devalue the other pro musicians in your market.

[fretless]

I think it was either Duane or Gregg Allman that said they played every gig they could , they even made gigs up out in fields and everytime they came back more people would show up because they've heard of them , and they just kept going and going . Go until some A&R signs you then put's you on the road some more

[nAmzrTakin]

I think that at the stage I'm at we're trying to still build a reputation, where as you might be trying to maintain it.

 

C7's point about an isolated town is a fair point. I live in a state capital with a hunderd bands in a hundred scenes. You have to make your mark of get the {censored} out the way, it's all about paying your dues here. Club owners wanna know about you before they headline you and you're band usually comes second to another band with more exposure.

[nAmzrTakin]

I think it was either Duane or Gregg Allman that said they played every gig they could , they even made gigs up out in fields and everytime they came back more people would show up because they've heard of them , and they just kept going and going . Go until some A&R signs you then put's you on the road some more

 

That's what's up.

[Sugarskull]

You are. There are ways around it though. Don't play for free, play for a contribution to the charity. If Club C normally pays you 2k, make someone pony up 2k for you to play at Club A for the benefit. Alternatively, structure a contract such that you play for free if they raise $X,XXX for the charity via the portion of the door you might otherwise get, but if they don't pass a minimum threshold, they have to come up with the contribution themselves. Once you start playing for free, you devalue the other pro musicians in your market.

 

Club C pays my buddy's band 2K. I can't seem to get in there and I'm wondering if it's because of a possible sense that we've devalued ourselves.

 

That's a good idea though about getting another company to possibly cover our expenses as their charitable contribution... I don't mind playing Charities this month, but I'm playing a couple of them and after baby sitting, parking, snacks and movie rental for the kids while we're out, etc. etc, I'll be out a couple hundred bucks beyond already not taking our regular wage of X dollars.

[Sugarskull]

 

Is your band your job? If you're doing it for money then you're probably better served taking paying gigs obviously. If you're trying to get heard and played (radio, CD sales) then you're only gonna be benifitted to be seen as a band that'll do anything for their listeners. By your logic of "Word gets around." My policy of play whenever you have the opportunity serves just as well. I'm not talking about begging for gigs I'm talking about maximum exposure.

 

 

Yep, another good point. Is there such a thing as too much exposure like C7 said?

[nAmzrTakin]

 

I think that at the stage I'm at we're trying to still build a reputation, where as you might be trying to maintain it. C7's point about an isolated town is a fair point. I live in a state capital with a hunderd bands in a hundred scenes. You have to make your mark of get the {censored} out the way, it's all about paying your dues here. Club owners wanna know about you before they headline you and you're band usually comes second to another band with more exposure.

 

 

In your case it might be a bad thing. For some reason I assume everyone lives in a city. Maybe do as he suggests and advertise more when you play gigs.

 

I play in the adelaide metal scene, and down here there's like an unofficial ranking system among bands where the more experienced band headlines and the nex experienced second to last and so on depending on the band experience.

 

A lot of the time two clubs will spot a well known local band and they'll have to compete for an audience. It's a pretty ruthless way of doing things but despite that us metalheads are a pretty tight knit community. Clubs would be reluctant to {censored} a band over because other bands won't play there.

[Crescent Seven]

In your case it might be a bad thing. For some reason I assume everyone lives in a city. Maybe do as he suggests and advertise more when you play gigs. I play in the adelaide metal scene...

 

There's 3 million people in Denver, and about 1.5 million in Calgary.

 

In Denver, we have this petri-dish scene where there are a thousand original bands, a dozen clubs, and no way to tour without backing. It's 9 hours to a comparably sized city. So you really have to be careful how you book, whose toes you step on, and who you talk {censored} to. You have to be well known in your genre-circle, and bands have to be willing to share fans and promotions, and subordinate stage times to each other. There's not much in the way of small touring acts coming through here, and the ones that do bring bands with them to share the cost of coming here.

 

My band is playing a charity gig that Jugghaid is putting together in February. At this stage of the game for us, it makes perfect sense to do it. We command absolutely nothing in the way of a guarantee from clubs, and we just plain want to do it. But we won't play a house party, or a BBQ, or a bar mitzvah, or any of that stuff, because it doesn't vibe with what we're trying to do.

C7

[nAmzrTakin]

You only refuse to play house parties because you know that once you get there you won't be able to concentrate with all that underage ass runin' around.

[nAmzrTakin]

There's not much in the way of small touring acts coming through here, and the ones that do bring bands with them to share the cost of coming here. C7

 

If we ever tour Denver I'll keep a spot open for you.

[Kindness]

Club C pays my buddy's band 2K. I can't seem to get in there and I'm wondering if it's because of a possible sense that we've devalued ourselves.

 

Doesn't the club only care about its profit and how many people you bring to the bar?

[In Absentia]

I'll play almost any gig, but I won't do house parties or {censored} like that. I've done too many times, and they just aren't worth it. Pay is {censored}, party hosts that are complete idiots, and risk of your gear getting damaged by dip{censored}s that think that because they play, they deserve to jam with you.

 

I think that you've gotta be careful of the gigs you get. You run the risk of diluting your band's image, and you'll find yourself doing more and more of those gigs that you'd rather not be playing.

[Crescent Seven]

You only refuse to play house parties because you know that once you get there you won't be able to concentrate with all that underage ass runin' around.

 

No, I don't play house parties because I don't go to house parties anymore.

 

Besides, there's no better place to get your {censored} stolen. I used to know a band that went to a house party, set up, and started playing. Cops showed up, ushered everyone out, and the homeowner locked the door. When the band went back to get their {censored}, the guy answered the door with a .45 and said "band? What band?"

They called the cops but the homeowner had moved a bunch of the stuff to a neighbor's house and claimed he had no idea what the band was talking about. They lost everything.

 

That homeowner ended up being found unconscious in an alley outside a club 4 or 5 months later, bleeding out of his ears.

C7

[nAmzrTakin]

I'd probaby only do a house party for a personal friend of the band. Someone we all know and it's like "{censored} we're gonna be there anyway we may as well play"

 

 

.....and risk of your gear getting damaged by dip{censored}s that think that because they play, they deserve to jam with you.

 

 

Truer words rarely spoken. "I'm sure you can play mate, just as I'm sure I paid close to 3k for my rig. And i'm not havin you fart around with it to proove how manly you are. {censored} off the answer's no"

 

How many of us have had that conversation. Drummers get it the most.

[In Absentia]

I'd probaby only do a house party for a personal friend of the band. Someone we all know and it's like "{censored} we're gonna be there anyway we may as well play" Truer words rarely spoken. "I'm sure you can play mate, just as I'm sure I paid close to 3k for my rig. And i'm not havin you fart around with it to proove how manly you are. {censored} off the answer's no" How many of us have had that conversation. Drummers get it the most.

 

LOL!

[nAmzrTakin]

No, I don't play house parties because I don't go to house parties anymore. Besides, there's no better place to get your {censored} stolen. I used to know a band that went to a house party, set up, and started playing. Cops showed up, ushered everyone out, and the homeowner locked the door. When the band went back to get their {censored}, the guy answered the door with a .45 and said "band? What band?" They called the cops but the homeowner had moved a bunch of the stuff to a neighbor's house and claimed he had no idea what the band was talking about. They lost everything. That homeowner ended up being found unconscious in an alley outside a club 4 or 5 months later, bleeding out of his ears. C7

 

LOL Mrs. Cresent Seven never let's you out to play.

 

I'd probably get shot if some {censored}er tried to half inch my rig. I'm too poor to replace it. Mind you, you can't carry a gun in this country. So really the prick would just have to use the money he got from selling my {censored} on new furniture and house appliances.

 

I'd grab a trailer and me and the boys would strip his house bear and sell al his crap to replace our stuff:D

[fingeringam]

 

I'd like to start this thread to hear some advice from those of you have found your own successful niche's and to see if anyone has had an experience where they have turned down gigs because it was contrary to their band image or... oh I dont know what I'm trying to say. Here's the long explanation: STFF's thread about doing an acoustic show at a retail outlet location rather than a stage with a goth band got me thinking a bit. Playing a store seems a bit out of their nature to me. Also, being relatively clean cut and sober my band, The Razors, are starting to get more calls to come do charity work and corporate Christmas parties etc... I can't figure out why it gives me such an unsettling feeling to play Charity fundraisers, weddings, corporate parties, backyard hootenannies and Holiday celebrations. It just seems so contrary to what we 'the band' are. Not that I'm against any of those things, I'd just rather be in the audience than on stage for them. Is that wrong? Isn't a gig is a gig is a gig? What's wrong with me? Does anyone else feel this way or am I out of line?

 

 

I'd take ONE ear bleeding, virgin defiling, face mother {censored}ing melting gig over a life time of touring, recording, and selling out.

 

Once money controls your desire to play, your music is worthless.

[Crescent Seven]

LOL Mrs. Cresent Seven never let's you out to play. I'd probably get shot if some {censored}er tried to half inch my rig. I'm too poor to replace it. Mind you, you can't carry a gun in this country. So really the prick would just have to use the money he got from selling my {censored} on new furniture and house appliances. I'd grab a trailer and me and the boys would strip his house bear and sell al his crap to replace our stuff:D

 

I don't go to house parties anymore because I'm too old for that {censored}. Any house party raging hard enough that a band would be appropriate usually breaks out in fights and has the cops show up. Since I'm 29, not 20, if a dickhead cop wants to {censored} around, I can end up being charged with providing alcohol to minors. No thanks.

 

I don't really even like the bars anymore because the newly-anointed 21 year old guys drive me nuts. If you want to stare someone down, fine. Go to a {censored}ing house party. Thankfully the live music clubs in town don't cater to that jock-boy meat market atmosphere.

C7

[nAmzrTakin]

Well I'm 22 so on behalf of the "newly-anointed" I'm sorry we suck ass