Members Thunderbroom Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 It went wonderfully. We had planned to have several rehearsals with the system before we took it to a gig. Our soundguy, from whom we bought the system, will be running sound at our next gig (next Saturday). He said we're totally ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members y-o-y Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 I am jealous. After my band's gig on Friday night when the drummer "couldn't hear {censored}" I am totally ready to dump the amps and go IEM.....to bad we don't haul in crazy money like YFC to finance it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members T. Alan Smith Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 Sweet setup, bro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted January 12, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 12, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dravenzouk Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 I went through a major "switching over to IEM's" process about a year ago with one of my bands. I was the one who initiated the whole thing, the drummer was excited, and the guitards were pretty skeptical but willing to give it a go. So the whole thing was on my shoulders (I'm the one who owns/runs the PA and does sound). I went through a TON of research, experimentation, and planning, as well as saving and searching for deals. I ended up with the Shure 200 series running off the Aux sends of my MixWiz 16:2. Four units, four monitor mixes, no dedicated monitor mixer, (or soundman to run it). After a bunch of rehearsals getting everything dialed, it went well initially. We started playing out with them and all the benefits were realized - NO feedback hassles, we were able to hear ourselves MUCH better, we all sang on pitch (a big accomplishment with this band), FOH was clearer, less equipment to haul and setup/takedown, etc. I absolutely loved it, as did the drummer. The fans commented on how much better we were sounding lately (not knowing why). The venues loved the fact that our setup/soundcheck went quicker and they didn't have to suffer ringing out the monitors. Yay IEMs!! And then...... yeah, you guessed it. One of the guitards started having issues. He didn't like things stuck in his ear. He didn't like being "disconnected" from the room. He didn't like his tone in the earphones. And on. Eventually he decided that he didn't want to use them anymore and wanted to go back to wedges (discounting the fact that he has NEVER been happy with them in the past either). The other guitard (who's a bit of a follower) started following his lead. And so, since it really makes no sense to run half and half, we ended up abandoning ship and going back to wedges. Lots of wasted time, money, & effort. (yay guitards!) But.............there is hope. A new era has begun. My second band is new and fresh. We spent a few of months learning material and getting ready the second half of last year. We've now been playing out for about two months and it's going well. So, now that we've got the basics down, we've got a critical mass of material ready, and we've worked out most of the logistical bugs of being a band - what's the next step? Yep - let's try switching over to IEMs! And guess what guys, I just happen to have everything we need to make it work! So, last week, after a bit of a lesson from me of what IEMs are all about and what to expect, we spent one whole evening getting set up and trying things out. Then we spent another whole rehearsal playing with them. And....tadaah!....these guys LOVE them. Both (band is a 3pc) guys are super thrilled so far and very much looking forward to using them. Our first gig with them will be in two weeks. So, it looks like my band has had it's first practice with IEMs too. So far so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted January 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 I've got a problem somewhere in my setup. I was getting this sort of "whoosh" from my bass signal. It wasn't bad...just enough to be annoying. No one noticed it but me and one of the singers. Our sound guy was cracking up. All he could hear when we were rehearsing was the drum, one guitar and the singers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted January 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 I ended up with the Shure 200 series running off the Aux sends of my MixWiz 16:2. Four units, four monitor mixes, no dedicated monitor mixer, (or soundman to run it). Here's what we have:Shure PSM400 (5 wireless/2 wired)Allen & Heath WZ3 12M Monitor MixerShure E5 EarbudsSubmixer for drumsPatch snakesRoad ready rack case Since the monitor mixer is only 16 channels, and we normally use about 19 or 20, we decided to submix the drums for the IEM setup with the ability to feed the drums separately to the FOH. We decided a long time ago to not run FOH sound for ourselves. When we need to supply our PA, we hire someone to run it. It's always hit/miss with monitor mixes when the PA is supplied. This takes all the uncertainty out of the equation. The way our units work, we have an overall band mix and then each of us has our own individual mix. The wireless belt pack has a blend knob that lets you control your mix relative to the band mix. I know this goes without saying, but I've never heard the band as clearly as I did today. This has been a long time coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dravenzouk Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 Okay, there is one niggling issue that I'm having with IEMs. In band number one, we never did quite get it dealt with, and now in band number two, it's the one thing that I'm still struggling to get dialed just right. And that is the "ducking" thing. The limiters in these systems (which are necessary and generally a good thing) have a tendency to act like a badly set up compressor and sometimes you get some weird breathing or ducking. What happens is sometimes when everyone is hitting it hard, some frequencies are squashed down so much that your mix goes all to hell. Also, when just one instrument is playing - like say a guitar intro to a song, even a quiet one - that one instrument seems very loud, until everyone else kicks in. I've tried a lot of things to deal with this (cleaner mixes, more/less signal, EQ, better seal on the earphones, etc.) , and though I've got it mostly handled, it's still not just right and is the one remaining issue to deal with before I can say I'm 100% sold on IEMs (as opposed to about 98%). TBroom (or anyone else that uses them), have you guys experienced this much? Have you found a good way to deal with the problem? Any tips? thnx, dz. NOTE/EDIT: I posted this just as you were putting up post #6 it seems. The "whoosh" you are getting is likely the same issue as the "ducking" I'm referring to. Hmmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted January 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 TBroom (or anyone else that uses them), have you guys experienced this much? Have you found a good way to deal with the problem? Any tips?thnx, dz. I think we were having a similar issue today. We finally realized that each of us had our belt pack at a different volume level. While I guess it shouldn't make a difference, folks we wanting more of "XXX" in the band mix and this cause problems for others. Once we figured out what was going on, we all set our receiver volumes to the same point for reference purposes. It was pretty easy to tweak it after that. We ended up lowering the band mix quite a bit which took care of the limiter issue for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted January 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 NOTE/EDIT: I posted this just as you were putting up post #6 it seems. The "whoosh" you are getting is likely the same issue as the "ducking" I'm referring to. Hmmmmmm. It's the bass only. I'm wondering if I should lower the XLR output on the GT-10B. Our soundguy told me the signal was very, very hot. I just checked it. It was wide open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dravenzouk Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 It's the bass only.I'm wondering if I should lower the XLR output on the GT-10B. Our soundguy told me the signal was very, very hot. I just checked it. It was wide open. That's what can happen. What's going on (I think) is that the bass signal in your mix is too hot, therefore when you peak the limiter ends up squashing everything else down, which leaves "more room" for that bass signal, and you end up hearing something that could be described as a whoosh. Lower frequencies tend to cause this problem more than higher ones. The reason why only you were hearing it is that you - I would think - have a lot more bass in your mix than anyone else. If someone knows better than I do if this is NOT true, please correct me and explain the real situation. And while you are at it, let me (and TBroom) know a better way to deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brake Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 Cool. I have no use for IEMs but it sure looks neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 IEM's rock, glad you like 'em. Got a tip for ya TBroom: get a Buttkicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted January 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 IEM's rock, glad you like 'em. Got a tip for ya TBroom: get a Buttkicker. If I stood in one place, the Buttkicker and the accompanying board that it attaches to would be great. I looked into it but decided against it as it's just another piece of gear that I don't need. With the SLC5 earbuds, the bass comes through really well. At $400 a pop at MF, they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hawt! It's the wave of the future, and you are riding it. Now if only we could turn down the drummers stage noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 That's what can happen. What's going on (I think) is that the bass signal in your mix is too hot, therefore when you peak the limiter ends up squashing everything else down, which leaves "more room" for that bass signal, and you end up hearing something that could be described as a whoosh. Lower frequencies tend to cause this problem more than higher ones. The reason why only you were hearing it is that you - I would think - have a lot more bass in your mix than anyone else.If someone knows better than I do if this is NOT true, please correct me and explain the real situation. And while you are at it, let me (and TBroom) know a better way to deal with it. I would guess that is what is happening. I use a separate comp/limiter on the insert of a few signals to control this. (right now it is down to 1 guitar that uses a processor and no amp, and 1 singer that also uses a processor. Our issue is more that he can't/won't? get all his patches leveled out.) BTW. Kickass T-Broom, you will never have a bad monitor mix again. Your FOH will be tighter/less muddy, and you are protecting your ears. I have a question about your buds, I have yhe E-5's with the conical shaped insert, and when fully seated sounds awesome. When I sweat a little, they will back out a bit, and I am constantly pushing them back in. This also results in causing a little pain where the housing hits my ears. I wonder what insert you use, and how it works. (I should get off my ass and get custom molds, but just haven't made the time.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted January 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 I wonder what insert you use, and how it works. (I should get off my ass and get custom molds, but just haven't made the time.) I'm using the black cones. So far so good, but we've only had one rehearsal. I'm contemplating the custom molds but am not going to jump the gun. I'll give the standard inserts for a while and see how I like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 Really, the only difference between them and playing through studio cans is they fit in your ear. I know I'm a dinosaur, but I never have had a problem with decent monitors, and I like being able to move around the stage and hear different things. Do not want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 Really, the only difference between them and playing through studio cans is they fit in your ear. I know I'm a dinosaur, but I never have has a problem with decent monitors, and I like being able to move around the stage and hear different things. Do not want. I haven't tried them myself yet, but I think I like the idea of hearing only what I want when I want personally. Still hearing myself the same when I wander around on stage sounds pretty damn cool to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted January 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 I never have had a problem with decent monitors Rock stars likely don't. Weekend warriors do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnyswonger Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 I haven't tried them myself yet, but I think I like the idea of hearing only what I want when I want personally. Still hearing myself the same when I wander around on stage sounds pretty damn cool to me. I also want to be able to hear the people in the crowd yelling out stuff like "Nyswonger you suck" and "get the {censored} off the stage asshole" - these are the things that I cherish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members catphish Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 I also want to be able to hear the people in the crowd yelling out stuff like "Nyswonger you suck" and "get the {censored} off the stage asshole" - these are the things that I cherish. Ambient mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted January 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 Still hearing myself the same when I wander around on stage sounds pretty damn cool to me. Yesterday at rehearsal, I was in my zone and just daydreaming while playing. I looked up and one of the singers (who was singing at the time) wasn't downstairs with us. Apparently she ran upstairs for something and never missed a beat. I'm with you. I think I'm going to love being able to move around the stage (like I've always done) and still be able to hear everything clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thunderbroom Posted January 12, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ambient mic. Yep. We're gonna use one. It will only feed to our IEM. Also, our drummer is the one who calls audibles during gigs. He has his own mic that only we hear. I'm label it "VOG" on the mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Renfield Posted January 12, 2009 Members Share Posted January 12, 2009 Yesterday at rehearsal, I was in my zone and just daydreaming while playing. I looked up and one of the singers (who was singing at the time) wasn't downstairs with us. Apparently she ran upstairs for something and never missed a beat.I'm with you. I think I'm going to love being able to move around the stage (like I've always done) and still be able to hear everything clearly. I am always on the move when on stage. My band knows to keep their heads up if they leave their home positions. Wandering over by the guitarist and still hearing myself crystal clear sounds pretty damn cool. When the day comes that I am playing stages again, let alone large enough to warrant it, I'll be going IEM's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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