Members chubrocker Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 OK, bring me back to reality if this idea really sucks.... I just got a SWR SM-400 in a trade. I think I'm going to like it, but really want to try it's bi-amping capabilities. What companies make a cab that has two different sized speakers, e.g. 12" and 8". I used to use a Peavey 1820 cab with my GK and really like it, but need something smaller than that now. Dr. Bass makes one, but I don't have six months to wait..... I could make one too, so that brings up a question of which speakers are best, cab size, blah blah blah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rpsands Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 I think a 12 would go better with a 6 or a 5, probably. You might try, for the cheap: A delta 12 LFA, with a Galaxy audio 5" mid in a separate chamber, with a Selenium horn. All should be able to get procured for under 150 total from parts express, I believe. I'd probably do something like, if you are going to make it a dedicated stereo cab: One 1/4 jack wired directly to the 12" woofer One 1/4 jack wired to a crossover, 12db @ 5000hz, for lower side to the mids and higher side to the horn. Definitely an attenuator for the horn. That way you essentially are triamping, but let the crossover do the work of splitting the highs off for you Would probably be pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t3ch Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 Have you looked into a Bergantino 322 or a Schroeder? That might save you some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solderjunkie Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 Drive to Nashville and I'll help you load this thing up! 2 x 12, 2 x 8... horn disconnected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rpsands Posted January 22, 2009 Members Share Posted January 22, 2009 From what I've read, a single 8" mid driver is going to put out more mids than you really need for most 12" drivers. A good quality 12 is probably 95-97db, and a quality 8" mid will churn out like 100-101db. Based on published specs. To match that, you probably want something a good amount smaller. And you do actually want to use midrange specific drivers, to my knowledge. They tend to be a lot more even from 1000hz to 4000hz, than say a full range 8" driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chubrocker Posted January 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2009 From what I've read, a single 8" mid driver is going to put out more mids than you really need for most 12" drivers. A good quality 12 is probably 95-97db, and a quality 8" mid will churn out like 100-101db. Based on published specs.To match that, you probably want something a good amount smaller.And you do actually want to use midrange specific drivers, to my knowledge. They tend to be a lot more even from 1000hz to 4000hz, than say a full range 8" driver. Honestly, all this db talk confuses me. I need something to represent a low B well. Sounds like I need to PM you to get more educated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rpsands Posted January 23, 2009 Members Share Posted January 23, 2009 Don't PM me for education. I know onlyw hat I've gleaned from forum readings and some outside sites. Not an expert. What you want to do with a midrange driver is try to roughly match the "sensitivity" attribute over the range you're trying to fill (say 800 to 3500hz) to the sensitivity of your woofer over the range you're looking for. Here for instance is a Delta 12 LFA in a typical set of cabinets:http://eminence.com/pdf/cab-delta-12lfa.pdf Note the second one - Medium Vented Bass Cab. From 50-800hz, it's roughly 0 to -3db. So 0-3 db, with the speaker's rated sensitivity of 95db....means from 50 to 800 hz your sensitivity will probably be around 92-95db. So you want to find a midrange driver that's roughly 95db (-3db at the lowest) over its range (800-3500hz). If you look here:http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=290-020&ctab=2#Tabs You'll find a Galaxy Express SSN-8 5" neodymium driver rated at 95db, so that's probably pretty close. It's probably going to have some dips, depending on the size of the chamber you build it (looks like it wants about 2 liters). Since unlike eminence, there's no detailed specs, it'd be hard to say for sure. You could also go with an eminence La6-CBMR - not amazing, because of some huge dips in the frequency response, but it would suffice most likely - However, given how expensive it is I would not bother with this, and would try the Galaxy - or some superior mid range. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-542 Then your next step is to try to find a horn that is again, similar sensitivity (though you can get away with a much more sensitive horn because you are going to put an attenuator on there). I don't have any real recommendations on horns but I like the eminence APT-80 and the Selenium supertweeters pretty well. Probably way louder than you need for this however. (NOTE: This is all just stuff I've found from research, and may or may not be accurate:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rpsands Posted January 23, 2009 Members Share Posted January 23, 2009 As far as I can tell the reasoning is that if you have a midrange that is 3-5db more sensitive than your woofer, you'll get a big bump in cabinet sensitivity in the upper midrange, which may be undesirable. Say your cabinet is 95db at 100hz, but 101db @ 1000hz...that's a lot of mids! Lots of bass amps only have like 12db of cut in the mids, some less, so you would not be able to scoop as much out of the mids as you might like without a mid range attenuator. Course, in a stereo rig that might not even matter, since you'll have control over the volume of both sides, I'd think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LanEvo Posted January 23, 2009 Members Share Posted January 23, 2009 Personally, I've never had positive experiences with bi-amping. It's one of those things that sounds great in theory, but somehow never quite works in real life. It sounds like you're looking for a single cab with separate inputs for lows and highs. That might be interesting. I bet Dan at Low Down Sound could put something together for you. Maybe a 15 and a pair of 8's in the same cab? Or one 12 and a 6.5? The alternative would be to go with a combination of cabs that's been proven to work. I'm thinking in terms of a Bag End 12+coax on top of a Bag End 15. Or maybe a Bag End 2x10+coax on top of a Bag End 18. There's something to be said for sticking with the tried-and-true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rpsands Posted January 23, 2009 Members Share Posted January 23, 2009 From what I know: For highs, you really do not need as much on top as you do on bottom...like one 6" mid driver is typically enough to cover mids for two 10s or 12s, from what I understand. Sometimes more (like with the Acme cabs, where the 10s are very low sensitivity). No bass cabs are really geared to handle only highs, and so you're always wasting something by not going full range (like if you use a 2x10 cab that goes down to 60hz as a 400hz and up cab, you're wasting the low end volume) So something custom is really the only way to go to do this right. Don could probably make you a damn fine stereo/biamped 1x15/1x6 -- that's pretty much the best mix I have seen. CAVEAT: If you can even hear a difference between that setup and a passive crossover setup, it won't be in a good way most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted January 23, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 23, 2009 I could make one too, so that brings up a question of which speakers are best, cab size, blah blah blah http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=508659 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted January 23, 2009 Members Share Posted January 23, 2009 Personally, I've never had positive experiences with bi-amping. It's one of those things that sounds great in theory, but somehow never quite works in real life. It can work if you have 2 preamps...no crossover needed for me cuz I don't need or want tweeters anyway. Hell, it's a natural progression from using either one or the other of the 2 cabinets (say a 1x15 vs a 2x10 or a 4x10). Dial in the grit on the preamp driving the 10's, and dial in the balls on the 15's or 12's. That's the sound right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chubrocker Posted January 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted January 23, 2009 http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=508659 :thu::thu::thu::thu: This is basically EXACTLY what I was looking at doing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knuckle_head Posted January 23, 2009 Members Share Posted January 23, 2009 http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=508659 ....ain't greenboy the bee's knees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kindness Posted January 23, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 23, 2009 ....ain't greenboy the bee's knees? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bassman1956 Posted January 23, 2009 Members Share Posted January 23, 2009 http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=508659 Hmmm... :evil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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