Members fretless Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090303/ap_on_re_us/missing_boaters_nfl CLEARWATER, Fla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Perfessor Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 They were achored and the waves did the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 Yep. Dumbasses... doesn't matter if you can't navigate, you do NOT anchor in stormy seas. It's a near-guarantee you'll breach. They were achored and the waves did the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 4, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 It's a shame. They were in a boat far too small for the weather conditions, and it's likely that anchoring hastened the boat's capsizing. Unless they happened to have a very long rode on the anchor, a small boat can easily capsize while anchored. A parachute sea anchor is a better choice in high seas, but neither this nor a 250' anchor rode is equipment you're likely to buy on a 21' boat. If they were able to retrieve one of the dock lines, they could have lashed themselves to the hull to keep from becoming separated. A simple length of line could have saved their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Perfessor Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 It's a shame. They were in a boat far too small for the weather conditions, and it's likely that anchoring hastened the boat's capsizing. Unless they happened to have a very long rode on the anchor, a small boat can easily capsize while anchored. A parachute sea anchor is a better choice in high seas, but neither this nor a 250' anchor rode is equipment you're likely to buy on a 21' boat. If they were able to retrieve one of the dock lines, they could have lashed themselves to the hull to keep from becoming separated. A simple length of line could have saved their lives. Must be no one had experience out of the bunch. They even had to go under the upturned boat to get their life vests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 4, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Yep. Dumbasses... doesn't matter if you can't navigate, you do NOT anchor in stormy seas. It's a near-guarantee you'll breach. Anchoring is fine and preferable, but you absolutely must have sufficient scope (a very long anchor rode) to do so. A short anchor line is what causes a small boat to capsize and most boats that size won't have more than 100 feet of rode. This is enough to anchor in maybe 20 feet of water in rough seas. Something like 250 feet is needed, or as I already mentioned, a parachute sea anchor. This will keep the bow headed into the seas with minimal drift, and there's virtually no tendency to pull the bow down and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 4, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Must be no one had experience out of the bunch. They even had to go under the upturned boat to get their life vests. Not unusual at all. As a longtime boater I've rarely ever seen anyone wearing PFD's even offshore. It's the #1 cause of drowning in the event of an accident...you can tread water and float for a short time, but keeping your head above water in any kind of sea other than calm water becomes nearly impossible after a few hours....you simply become exhausted and give up. A terrible way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members In Absentia Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 Anchoring is fine and preferable, but you absolutely must have sufficient scope (a very long anchor rode) to do so. A short anchor line is what causes a small boat to capsize and most boats that size won't have more than 100 feet of rode. This is enough to anchor in maybe 20 feet of water in rough seas. Something like 250 feet is needed, or as I already mentioned, a parachute sea anchor. This will keep the bow headed into the seas with minimal drift, and there's virtually no tendency to pull the bow down and over. Damn, you really know your {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted March 4, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Damn, you really know your {censored}. Boating is fun, but it's also no joke. Years ago I had a neighbor who knew I had a 28' express cruiser and constantly harassed me to take him out for some fishing tournament off New Jersey. I refused because even at nearly 30 feet my boat was not suitable for offshore use....especially the 100 miles offshore this tournament would be held. I've been in 7-10 foot seas and it's no fun in a boat that size. My last boat was a 21-foot cuddy about the size of these guy's boat, and there's no F'n way I'd be out of sight of land in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 And thus, for most small boats anchoring in that situation is NOT fine and preferable. I was in one of those storms many years ago, 30 miles off Cancun. It was hairy, but anchoring was not a valid option. Those guys were dumbasses plain and simple. Anchoring is fine and preferable, but you absolutely must have sufficient scope (a very long anchor rode) to do so. A short anchor line is what causes a small boat to capsize and most boats that size won't have more than 100 feet of rode. This is enough to anchor in maybe 20 feet of water in rough seas. Something like 250 feet is needed, or as I already mentioned, a parachute sea anchor. This will keep the bow headed into the seas with minimal drift, and there's virtually no tendency to pull the bow down and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretless Posted March 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 hypothermia set in they didn't last long . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members J the D Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 The weather forecast was for deteriorating conditions thru Saturday into Sunday with a nasty front working its way through Florida on Sunday morning. Why they ever went out that far when small craft advisories were being put out is beyond me. As for anchoring, you need a 7 to 1 ratio of line to depth in normal conditions. It is about 50 ft deep thirty miles out so they would have needed 350 feet on anchor line. As for PFD's, I bought two sets of the inflatable collars and wear them all the time. They are comfortable even in hot weather and can save your life if you hit your head being tossed out of the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 Posthumous Darwin Awards await them. The weather forecast was for deteriorating conditions thru Saturday into Sunday with a nasty front working its way through Florida on Sunday morning. Why they ever went out that far when small craft advisories were being put out is beyond me.As for anchoring, you need a 7 to 1 ratio of line to depth in normal conditions. It is about 50 ft deep thirty miles out so they would have needed 350 feet on anchor line.As for PFD's, I bought two sets of the inflatable collars and wear them all the time. They are comfortable even in hot weather and can save your life if you hit your head being tossed out of the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 A 21' boat? Seriously? That's a pretty small boat to be going anywhere. That's like something you take out on a lake or something...not the ocean. I'm sure people do this all the time, just not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members willsellout Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 Craig, it doesn't matter how much line they had out anchoring was a bad idea and normally is a bad idea for small boats when there is any type of swell. As far as the parachute anchors, they don't really work like you think they do. They are not normally used as an anchor, they can be used to stay in the general area but you will drift, sometimes drifting rapidly depending on the displacement of the boat. They also might not keep your bow into the seas. If there is any kind of wind they could very well get themselves in a lot of trouble throwing a parachute anchor out. In either case these guys should have checked the weather. The CG would have had small craft advisories out. It's a shame. After about 15 minutes in the water without a life jacket, they were done. IF they did manage to put them on properly they'd have a maximum of 10-12 hours before they would be done. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super_Donut_Man Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 A 21' boat? Seriously? That's a pretty small boat to be going anywhere. That's like something you take out on a lake or something...not the ocean. I'm sure people do this all the time, just not me. I (along with 11 other people) sailed 3 21' boats from San Diego to Catalina and back. Wasn't the brightest (mainly because of the equipment used), but wasn't that bad either. We planned it well, weather was perfect. No way in hell I would take that WAY out, its just askin for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ThudMaker Posted March 4, 2009 Moderators Share Posted March 4, 2009 I think this is pretty sad. It also has to be an incredibly lonely way to die. Peace and mojo to the families of these young men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Emprov Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 Craig, it doesn't matter how much line they had out anchoring was a bad idea and normally is a bad idea for small boats when there is any type of swell.As far as the parachute anchors, they don't really work like you think they do. They are not normally used as an anchor, they can be used to stay in the general area but you will drift, sometimes drifting rapidly depending on the displacement of the boat. They also might not keep your bow into the seas. If there is any kind of wind they could very well get themselves in a lot of trouble throwing a parachute anchor out. In either case these guys should have checked the weather. The CG would have had small craft advisories out. It's a shame. After about 15 minutes in the water without a life jacket, they were done. IF they did manage to put them on properly they'd have a maximum of 10-12 hours before they would be done. I've actually been waiting to hear your take on this sitch for a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toolmybass Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 I was in Jamaica and went on a catamaran....they delayed our "day trip" for 3 days because of high winds....then took us out of thursday in 18' swells....I cant remember the length of the boat but, im thinking it was just long enough to handle those high seas....It was almost calm until a mile or so out, so EVERYONE but me was drinking right off the bat....the guys running the boat were laughing there head off when 20 people were all puking their guts out off the side of the boat in swells like that....funny site....but i will tell you land never looked better after that scary ride!...I didnt even take the boat back to the resort! Screw that i got a ride! TMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members willsellout Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 I've actually been waiting to hear your take on this sitch for a few days. You could have asked;) Honestly, I'm not sure why they would continue to hold anchor in anything over a couple feet out there. If they would have had a couple safety devices they would still be alive. If you are a boater and, and you take trips offshore, and you don't have an EPIRB you are already putting yourself in danger. If they had an EPIRB on board I'd bet dollars to doughnuts they'd all still be alive. For those of you who don't know, an EPIRB stands for electronic position indication radio beacon. If your boat flips over, or if you get yourself into trouble you flip it on and the Coast Guard responds. In the case of your boat flipping over most will automatically activate. They are a few hundred bucks but they will save your life. As far as what they should have done? They should have gotten back underway as soon as the seas hit 5 feet and headed back. They should have quartered the seas to avoid taking water over the bow, and they should have called the Coast Guard and established a radio communication schedule. But they didn't realize the weight of the situation and they paid for it. I do agree that they should have tied themselves to the boat. That boat would take a very long time to sink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 Yeah, but he got to spew jargon and impress InAbsentia with that jargon - he couldn't have done that had he simply agreed those boaters were dumbasses Craig, it doesn't matter how much line they had out anchoring was a bad idea and normally is a bad idea for small boats when there is any type of swell. As far as the parachute anchors, they don't really work like you think they do. In either case these guys should have checked the weather. The CG would have had small craft advisories out. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SA Rios Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 This is the model boat that they were on. Jeez, I wouldn't go out on Lake Michigan in that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gfunkk44 Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 The weather forecast was for deteriorating conditions thru Saturday into Sunday with a nasty front working its way through Florida on Sunday morning. Why they ever went out that far when small craft advisories were being put out is beyond me.As for anchoring, you need a 7 to 1 ratio of line to depth in normal conditions. It is about 50 ft deep thirty miles out so they would have needed 350 feet on anchor line.As for PFD's, I bought two sets of the inflatable collars and wear them all the time. They are comfortable even in hot weather and can save your life if you hit your head being tossed out of the boat. It's just a lack of respect for the water. IMO water travel is more dangerous than air travel simply because many recreational boaters believe they have a false sense of secuirty in the water (the "i'm a great swimmer" attitude). I would highly reccomend every boater take some sort of power squadron or boater safety course, and as Dan said proper safety equipment is a absolute must. Living in Michigan it has always amazed me how so many boaters venture out offshore into the great lakes with no radio, no flares, 100 ft anchor lines, low fuel with the excuse that "it's just a lake." It's no Ocean but it's not a pond either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members White Falcon Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 why didn't they all hang onto the boat and wait like the one dood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members willsellout Posted March 4, 2009 Members Share Posted March 4, 2009 Probably because they were getting beaten all night with 15 foot waves:idk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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