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OT: Obama wants to charge Veterans for VA care?!?!?!


Ender_rpm

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Hmm...

Dump the VA guys on the private insurers.

Private insurers have to increase their premiums to compensate for this.

Everyone goes up in arms over their insurance being even more expensive.

Obama garners more support for socialist medicine.

Everyone gets hoodwinked.


Sounds like a great plan. For Obama.:D
C7

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It's a lot more satisfying to scream and harrumph and pass quick judgement on ideas and proposals than it is to actually understand them.
:idea:

I'm pretty sure I won't like everything the current administration comes up with, but I'm satisfied that at least there a genuine effort being made to do things smarter and in the light of open air. There's a change anyway.


:



You're kidding right Bob? Seriously?

I mean, let's just look at the latest stimulus bill, the fact that no one literally had the time to read it before it was put to a vote, and all the brazen pork attached to it, and Obama himself stating "There are no earmarks".

Sorry. I'm throwing down the bull{censored} card. That "open air" smells like a lot of manure. Smarter? Yeah, for the people that want to spend/waste your money at an unprecedented clip.

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Hmm...


Dump the VA guys on the private insurers.


Private insurers have to increase their premiums to compensate for this.


Everyone goes up in arms over their insurance being even more expensive.


Obama garners more support for socialist medicine.

Everyone gets hoodwinked.


Sounds like a great plan. For Obama.
:D
C7



Nobody is "Dumping" anybody anywhere. My understanding is that we are talking about Vets. that have private insurance ANYWAY.

In other words, say I'm a vet, entitled to all the Health/Medical benefits that go with that. Now, I'm out of the service and I go to work for company A, and lo and behold part of my employment compensation package includes Health Insurance coverage. My understanding is all that Obama's plan says is that if you have private health insurance anyway, use that health care coverage as your primary coverage instead of the taxpayers having to pick up the tab, while your employer or you and your employer are paying for other coverage anyway.

From the Vets. point of view, I would hope they would look at it like this:

I'm entitled to VA benefits, but my employer is going to provide me with free
health care (or for whatever reason I find it worthwhile to pay for part of it because it is superior to VA health system). so, I consider it my Patriotic duty to NOT be a drain on my fellow taxpayers since I have other access to health care that is being paid for by myself or my employer.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, Obama's plan doesn't FORCE anyone to do anything other then get their VA benefit. (and believe me, I'm the last one on this forum that you are usual going to find defending ANYTHING that Obama wants to do).

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Unless I'm misunderstanding something...

 

 

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you have never been in the military? If you had spent 2-30 years of your life getting screwed by, as we called it, the Big Green Weenie, you'd understand why we will fight for our entitlements.

 

That being said, if the administartion wnated to make this a anew program for soldier joining the military from this point forward, I'd be ok with it, because you'd knowwhat you were getting into. To make this change now, just as the WW2, Korea, and Vietnam Vets are getting the most expensive, and as we deal with a new generation of Vets from post 9/11 combat who had served faithfully under the current system, it's wildly inappropriate.

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It's a lot more satisfying to scream and harrumph and pass quick judgement on ideas and proposals than it is to actually understand them.
:idea:

I'm pretty sure I won't like everything the current administration comes up with, but I'm satisfied that at least there a genuine effort being made to do things smarter and in the light of open air. There's a change anyway.

 

Exactly what is it that led you to this conclusion of a "genuine effort"?

 

I've been told several times here that my criticisms are unfounded and premature simply because Obama hasn't been in office long enough to render judgement. So I'm curious as to how you've escaped the same judgement (aside from your being on the "correct" side of the judger's opinion) and how you've arrived at this conclusion. I'll admit that I already feel you're basing it on political party, which I'm sure comes as no surprise to either of us.

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As far as my opinion of Veteran care goes; We burden our youth with defending our country and doing it's leader's bidding (far more of the latter than former in recent decades) and the cost is their lives, their limbs, their sanity, and their futures.

 

The LEAST we can do is take care of the parts that arrive home.

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Nobody is "Dumping" anybody anywhere. My understanding is that we are talking about Vets. that have private insurance ANYWAY.


In other words, say I'm a vet, entitled to all the Health/Medical benefits that go with that. Now, I'm out of the service and I go to work for company A, and lo and behold part of my employment compensation package includes Health Insurance coverage. My understanding is all that Obama's plan says is that if you have private health insurance anyway, use that health care coverage as your primary coverage instead of the taxpayers having to pick up the tab, while your employer or you and your employer are paying for other coverage anyway.


From the Vets. point of view, I would hope they would look at it like this:


I'm entitled to VA benefits, but my employer is going to provide me with free

health care (or for whatever reason I find it worthwhile to pay for part of it because it is superior to VA health system). so, I consider it my Patriotic duty to NOT be a drain on my fellow taxpayers since I have other access to health care that is being paid for by myself or my employer.


Unless I'm misunderstanding something, Obama's plan doesn't FORCE anyone to do anything other then get their VA benefit. (and believe me, I'm the last one on this forum that you are usual going to find defending ANYTHING that Obama wants to do).

 

 

Okay. I'll bite. And yes, I'm a vet. And yes, I have (according to the Navy) a 14% permanent disability from breaking my back.

 

Now, I turned down quite a few programs. I could be getting a check that (back then) started at $640 a month for the rest of my life. I turned it down. I also qualified for their Vocational Rehab program where they would pay 100% of my college expenses for up to 4 years. I turned that down as well.

 

Why, you may ask? Because 3 weeks after getting out of a body cast and gettng an honorable discharge, I was skiing at Arapahoe Basin. I really didn't need it. All of my medical bills were taken care of by the Navy and I was actually quite fine. And the injury happened on my way to Daytona Beach, not while I was out to sea. I was on leave. And I didn't need the money or even care about it. I wanted to go chase ski bunnies. And honestly, excpet for a slight shlight problem every once in a great while, I'm fine. I would rather see that money go to the vets who actually need it.

 

If you decide to be "patriotic" and not be a drain on your fellow taxpayers for an injury sustained during combat, I think you would be better off going to the VA. As I pointed out, SOMEONE is going to pay for the increased cost of health insurance. It will be the consumers in the long run. It always is. Either the employer will pick it up and be able to hire less people causeing greater unemployment.....or they will have the employee have to pay a larger percentage of their premium.....whatever. The consumer/taxpayer is the one who will pay.

 

So how about the government live up to their responsibilities and take care of people who fought for this country and suffered physical/mental/emotional damage? They made that promisr and they need to keep it. Period. If they want to go ahead and purchase a full blown heath coverage policy for these vets, with no co-pay, no deductible, no out of pocket expense whatsoever, and it's better, more efficient and cheaper than the VA, then fine. Go for it, and I'll support it 100%. But to tell someone who risked their life for this country to have their own insurance cover it first so the government can save some money is absolute HORSE{censored}.

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True 'dat.


I consider this a part of the plan to burden private health care with the end game of nationalization.

 

 

If it were required for all able-bodied Americans to serve in the armed forces we could make the VA our nationalized health care system!!!

 

Private health care will be a joke as long as it's run by the insurance companies and not the care providers.

 

I like the idea of nationalized health care as long as there's the ability to get better care if you want to pay for it.

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I like the idea of nationalized health care as long as there's the ability to get better care if you want to pay for it.

 

 

This is exactly why it doesn't work!!! 2 tier systems are a bad idea, if only because they tend to drain the specialists and good doctors out of the general pool. At least under the current system, if you have the coverage, you can go to the doctor that suits your needs. Under a 2 tier system, those doc swill be as off limits as if they were in China.

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You're kidding right Bob? Seriously?


I mean, let's just look at the latest stimulus bill, the fact that no one literally had the time to read it before it was put to a vote, and all the brazen pork attached to it, and Obama himself stating "There are no earmarks".


Sorry. I'm throwing down the bull{censored} card. That "open air" smells like a lot of manure. Smarter? Yeah, for the people that want to spend/waste your money at an unprecedented clip.

 

 

 

Yeah, I thought that "open air" thing was pretty laughable, too...

 

 

 

- georgestrings

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Hmm...


Dump the VA guys on the private insurers.


Private insurers have to increase their premiums to compensate for this.


Everyone goes up in arms over their insurance being even more expensive.


Obama garners more support for socialist medicine.


Everyone gets hoodwinked.


Sounds like a great plan. For Obama.
:D
C7



Nail meet hammer.:mad:

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Interesting that Jon Stewart criticized this move on The Daily Show last night in a new segment called "That Can't be Right".


It's at the beginning of the show...which you can watch here:


http://www.hulu.com/watch/63134/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-tue-mar-17-2009#s-p1-so-i0

Why would it be interesting? There isn't anyone in the US that is interested in this with the exception of the Administration.

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Interesting that Jon Stewart criticized this move on The Daily Show last night in a new segment called "That Can't be Right".


It's at the beginning of the show...which you can watch here:


http://www.hulu.com/watch/63134/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-tue-mar-17-2009#s-p1-so-i0



I need to start watching that show again. :lol:

Who is the looney toon at 9:45?

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That being said,
if the administartion wnated to make this a anew program for soldier joining the military from this point forward, I'd be ok with it, because you'd knowwhat you were getting into.
To make this change now, just as the WW2, Korea, and Vietnam Vets are getting the most expensive, and as we deal with a new generation of Vets from post 9/11 combat who had served faithfully under the current system, it's wildly inappropriate.

 

 

This is a point well taken and worth consideration. You'll notice that most of my arguments are more toward the point of why would you WANT VA health care if you have better options ?

I do disagree with your characterization of Obama's proposal as being "Wildly Inappropriate" in a time when Health Care Costs are sky rocketing we have a category of people that are getting their health care paid for and, at the same time, getting their health care paid for, if you see what I mean. IMO that makes this at least a legitimate point for discussion.

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Linky

 

The proposal has been dropped. Woo the the Effin hoo.

 

FWIW, the "wildly inappropriate" part was due to

A. We are in two wars right now

B. Pres. Obama really can't afford to piss off the military, especially given his total lack of experience in dealing with them. See Clinton and the "don't ask" compromise.

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