Members Thrustin Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 I have been playing most of my gigs over the past few years with no sound guy. We generally run our own sound. The amplifiers amplify the guitars and basses. The drums are inherently loud because they are drums and the vocals get run through the PA. Occasionally we'll run a mic on the bass drum, but that's it! And guess what, we play at a reasonable volume and everything is cool. But two shows into my re-emergence into the original band circuit, I want to run over a sound guy. Listening to the first band, I notice that he has turned a very good basser playing a music man through a Mo Bass into mud. But, more importantly it is plenty loud. When I'm setting up the soundtard tells me "We're basically running on one cabinet, so keep the volume down. I'll let you know if your too loud." I set up and my Bassman {censored}s the bed. I grab my Tiny Terror and turn the volume and gain both to 12:00 (halfway). He tells me it's too loud. This is a 15 watt amp! Too loud?!? Halfway is too loud? You only have one working cabinet, but you have a mic on both of the guitar amps and your running a DI on the bass and have a mic on every godammit drum. But my 15 watt guitar amp is too loud? We won't be able to hear the vocals you say? It is not about a good mix. It is not about making the most of the equipment on hand. It is about control. Soundtards do not want any amp sound going to the room. They want to control everything. I could understand it if it was a huge venue, but is was far from a huge venue. If I wanted a 4000 watt solid state amp to amplify my guitar, I would {censored}ing finance it. I hate this clown and other like him. I have battled sound guys many times about various issues. I hate them. It has been said that those who can't, teach. I would say the same can be said for soundtards. I hate them, and it's time we did away with them. Sound guys were implemented because singers were too lazy to buy/carry their own PA system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sonic1 Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 Good show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thrustin Posted December 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 Good show? It was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sonic1 Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 It was great. Nice! As far as sound guys go, good luck. I've never played live, but if sound guys are like any of them guys running karaoke, I'd imagine most of them suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thrustin Posted December 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 Nice! As far as sound guys go, good luck. I've never played live, but if sound guys are like any of them guys running karaoke, I'd imagine most of them suck. I'mm lucky, in that I have a very kewl karaoke dude. Well, I don't know if he's cool, but I would much rather deal with him than a soundtard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thrustin Posted December 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 Also, do you really need a DI box when running out of the pre-amp xlr out of a bass amp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rpsands Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 Lots of amplifier based DIs just suck; too much work for sound guys to know which are good and which are bad, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lokidecat Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 put it in your rider.. 'Billy Cool does his own sound. Your "sound guy" gets the night off' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dwalmz Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 I never use my amps on-board DI's! Never. I lose control of my stage rig when I do! Separate DI box with a clean bass signal to the board all the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeonVomit Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 I guess that doing away with the soundguy altogether is an appealing notion, but if you want to play bigger places or whatever which have their own house PA, there's every chance the management will not be too thrilled at you using their expensive (if it's a good venue) equipment. But yeah, I get what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chunky-b Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 So you do one show and see one sound guy and now hate all sound guys? Ooookay... Obsess much? (And yes, I work on the side as a "sound guy"... :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MTMTEX Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 As a bassplayer/soundman I can tell you I have a completely different agenda depending on which side of the board I am on. When I am on stage I want to hear everything as loud as I can stand it, well usually except for the voice, I don't really need that to play. When I am behind the board I dont want to hear anything from the stage at all. The problem is seldom the mains, its almost always the monitors. When a voume war breaks out on stage the singer more often then not claims they can't hear their monitor. When it gets bumped up feedback issues normally occur and it goes downhill rapidly from there. Not to generalize but I find this true of most bands with younger members or not a lot of stage experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thrustin Posted December 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 ^You don't want to hear anything from the stage? That's a control issue. Why does, in a place that probably has a 100-150 person capacity need 5 godammit subs and everything mic'd? I don't understand why guitars should go through the board in a place like that. Everyhing is upside down and retarded. {censored} sound guys. I will not compromise anymore. Never again will they put me in a bad mood. To chunks...I've played over 1000 shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 I run the sound for my band from the stage, out of necessity. Never underestimate what a good soundman can do. A good dedicated soundman can adjust levels on the fly for solos and quiet parts, add effects for vocals when needed, etc. With or without a soundman, the band still has to be co-operating and have a good ear for the mix. The best measure of success is a steady gig calendar. Don't let outsiders try and tell you that your setup won't work, if it's working and you're getting asked back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fireball_73 Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 I've been lucky with soundmen so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chunky-b Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 To Thrusts... I never asked how many shows you played. That really proves a lot about you... I was just curious why you make blanket / stereotypical statements. Are you some kind of racist? Are you a prejudiced against certain professions? Sounds like you hate stupid, inept people, not sound guys... I also hate stupid, inept people. I thought we were buds again Thrusts? What happened? Did you let a little high school drop-out sound hack mess up your day? ? ? ^You don't want to hear anything from the stage? That's a control issue. Why does, in a place that probably has a 100-150 person capacity need 5 godammit subs and everything mic'd? I don't understand why guitars should go through the board in a place like that. Everyhing is upside down and retarded. {censored} sound guys. I will not compromise anymore. Never again will they put me in a bad mood. To chunks...I've played over 1000 shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MTMTEX Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 ^You don't want to hear anything from the stage? That's a control issue. Why does, in a place that probably has a 100-150 person capacity need 5 godammit subs and everything mic'd? I don't understand why guitars should go through the board in a place like that. Everyhing is upside down and retarded. {censored} sound guys. I will not compromise anymore. Never again will they put me in a bad mood. To chunks...I've played over 1000 shows. Yes. The lower the stage volume the easier it is to balance instruments with voice through the mains. As a soundman the ultimate would be to have no amps, only DI's and monitors, with the drummer using electronic drums. I am touching myself right now just thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thrustin Posted December 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yes. The lower the stage volume the easier it is to balance instruments with voice through the mains. As a soundman the ultimate would be to have no amps, only DI's and monitors, with the drummer using electronic drums. I am touching myself right now just thinking about it. I totally understand and can see why my 15 watt guitar amp was too loud. And chunks, we're budz again? Cool. Stop trolling me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chunky-b Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yes. The lower the stage volume the easier it is to balance instruments with voice through the mains. As a soundman the ultimate would be to have no amps, only DI's and monitors, with the drummer using electronic drums. I am touching myself right now just thinking about it. We just got a new set (or the drummer got) a new set of the Roland TD-21 Vdrums... Those things are so sweet!!!! I love (from a sound guy perspective) to have control of the drum volume... Only problem is our drummer is almost deaf and always wants more in his monitor, which is louder than the mains need to be causing a nice echo off the back wall of the stage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L. Ron Hoover Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 It's totally all about control. Every soundguy's dream is to control musicians like the puppets they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MTMTEX Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 I totally understand and can see why my 15 watt guitar amp was too loud. And chunks, we're budz again? Cool. Stop trolling me. This happened to me once playing out. The soundguy kept coming up telling me I was too loud. I couldnt even hear myself. He finally walked over flailing his arms, I reached over and TURNED the rig off and it still sounded like low end reverberating {censored}. His eyes got real big and i would have loved to have seen the look on our faces because it still sounded like boomy {censored} with me off. At the end of the song we looked at the guitards setting and determined he couldnt have had anything over 200hz coming out of his amp the way he had it EQ'd. Problem solved and the rest of the gig sounded great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Thrustin Posted December 4, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 We just got a new set (or the drummer got) a new set of the Roland TD-21 Vdrums... Those things are so sweet!!!! I love (from a sound guy perspective) to have control of the drum volume... Only problem is our drummer is almost deaf and always wants more in his monitor, which is louder than the mains need to be causing a nice echo off the back wall of the stage... Nothing says rock and roll like little rubber pads. I had a set a while back when I lived in an apartment. I out them up for sale immediately after buying a house. I don't miss them at all and laugh at grown men who play them. They are a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members L. Ron Hoover Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 On a serious note, there are actually sound people out there whose primary motive is to work with the artists to make them comfortable so that they can perform their best whilst putting together a killer house mix even if that means not micing the drums and the guitar amp. Though there are lots of situations where a little touch of those things in the PA can really enhance the stage sound. While it's nice to have very little sound off the stage, that's not something that happens a lot so any sound person worth their salt will know how to manage stage volume and balance it with the PA and still get a nice mix. Don't confuse "sound desk attendant" with "sound engineer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 While it's nice to have very little sound off the stage, that's not something that happens a lot so any band member worth their salt will know how to manage stage volume and balance it with the PA and still get a nice mix. Fixed your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RedsFan75 Posted December 4, 2009 Members Share Posted December 4, 2009 Yes. The lower the stage volume the easier it is to balance instruments with voice through the mains. As a soundman the ultimate would be to have no amps, only DI's and monitors, with the drummer using electronic drums. I am touching myself right now just thinking about it. Fully understand what you're saying here, We have the drums enclosed in a sound shield to help control stage volume, but, we have 1 guitarist that refuses to use the monitor, and his is the only amp on stage. The rest of us have to rely on the monitors. When the other guitarist plays he doesn't use and amp and the sound is MUCH better, yet this one totally throws off stage volume and gives our sound man fits. Controlling it through the mains is much easier when stage volume is controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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