Musicians that should not be allowed!

[GCDEF]

Originally posted by Thundercranium As the frontman for both my bands, I think the singer should at least have enough PA gear to amplify vocals for rehearsal. As TA Hall pointed out, it would be the same as your guitarist showing up expecting the rest of the band to provide him with an amp. In my opinion, this responsibility ends when playing out. It was brought up earlier about being compensated for owning the PA. If a band member provides the entire PA for gigs, he or she should receive (in my opinion) 5-15% off the top of each gig. Maintaining a PA is a huge expense, both in money and effort. This is why I prefer to let a pro take care of our sound (that, and I want to sound good - nothing beats a knowledgable soundtech ) One could argue that other band members have a lot of money invested in gear, however, each member should be responsible for producing their own instrument - the PA covers everybody. I wouldn't expect the rest of my band to pay to re-tube my guitar amp, but I would expect them to chip in to replace a blown PA speaker. Having a fixed percentage coming off the top is the best solution. If something breaks, you don't have to be hounding the band to pay up. Likewise, the other members of the band never need to worry about coming up with money to fix something. Of course, this system only works if the owner of the PA actually uses the money for its intended purpose

 

TAH had a winky after his post. The reason I ask is that in my band we all use the PA equally, so it seemed a little unusual to expect one person to provide the most expensive equipment that is shared equally among band members. I'd expect musicians to provide their own instruments, but the PA isn't an instrument, it's for the entire band.

[THX1138]

 

Originally posted by GCDEF TAH had a winky after his post. The reason I ask is that in my band we all use the PA equally, so it seemed a little unusual to expect one person to provide the most expensive equipment that is shared equally among band members. I'd expect musicians to provide their own instruments, but the PA isn't an instrument, it's for the entire band.

 

 

I'm assuming that when we're talkin about singers bringing the PA, we're referring more to the standard powered mixer/two speakers on a stick, practice PA kinda deal. On this I have to agree that generally that's no different than a guitarist being responsible for his own amp. If you're the singer, the practice PA is your eqipment and therefore your responsibility.

 

I doubt anyone expects the singer alone to be responsible for the full blown club system.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Originally posted by THX1138 I'm assuming that when we're talkin about singers bringing the PA, we're referring more to the standard powered mixer/two speakers on a stick, practice PA kinda deal. On this I have to agree that generally that's no different than a guitarist being responsible for his own amp. If you're the singer, the practice PA is your eqipment and therefore your responsibility. I doubt anyone expects the singer alone to be responsible for the full blown club system.

 

Well, in my case, I do own the entire PA, lock, stock and barrel(plugs)...a lot of places I perform either don't have a PA (probably 85% of 'em) or have really crappy ones (about 10%), so I rarely have to plug into a "house" system.

 

Plus, by owning the PA outright yourself, when the inevitable "changing of the guard" happens, you don't have to buy out one (or more) member(s) of his/their share...or be left w/o an integral part of the sound system, effectively putting yourself/the band out of commission for a while.

 

And, by owning a complete system, I can "create" gigs in places that never had live music before, thus opening up more revenue!

 

For the same reason, I also own a pretty nice bass rig, drum kit and various other gear, so that in a pinch, I can hire a last-minute replacement member and have the gear set-up onstage, ready to go when they show up...this has saved our bacon more than a few times, and I also carry a big 3-ringed binder with the words and changes to every song I'm likely to call for in an evening.

 

Used to be a Boy Scout!

[Thundercranium]

 

Originally posted by GCDEF TAH had a winky after his post. The reason I ask is that in my band we all use the PA equally, so it seemed a little unusual to expect one person to provide the most expensive equipment that is shared equally among band members. I'd expect musicians to provide their own instruments, but the PA isn't an instrument, it's for the entire band.

 

 

I don't think we disagree. Read my post more carefully.

 

My point is that a singer should only be responsible for amplifying his or her voice for rehearsal. If the singer owns the PA your band uses for gigging, then they should be paid a % of the gross to cover the cost of creating/maintaining that rig.

[BLacktocomm]

Originally posted by Terry Allan Hall Why should electric guitarists own amps?

Zing.

 

People who use terribly bad cliches and mean them seriously. Example "hey hun grab your husband a burrito because I am about to rock" when I heard our singer say that I seriously wanted to go home.

[Terry Allan Hall]

 

Originally posted by Thundercranium I don't think we disagree. Read my post more carefully. My point is that a singer should only be responsible for amplifying his or her voice for rehearsal. If the singer owns the PA your band uses for gigging, then they should be paid a % of the gross to cover the cost of creating/maintaining that rig.

 

 

In the case where every member is getting the same $$$, but only one owns the PA, then getting paid an extra 5-10% is fair, and right...it's little enough, really!

 

In my case, my rhythm section are "employees" and don't make the same $$$ that I do....OTOH, if we get "stiffed" (fortunately, this hasn't happened in several years, thanks to decent contracts!), I'm obliged to still pay 'em, out of my own pockets.

[GCDEF]

 

Originally posted by Thundercranium I don't think we disagree. Read my post more carefully. My point is that a singer should only be responsible for amplifying his or her voice for rehearsal. If the singer owns the PA your band uses for gigging, then they should be paid a % of the gross to cover the cost of creating/maintaining that rig.

 

 

It's funny, in my band the singer is the only one that doesn't own a PA. I have the big club rig, the drummer has a mixer, amp and wedges that we use for practice at his house, and the bass player has the powered mixer and speakers on sticks that we reserve for emergency use if the big PA ever fails.

[Edward]

Originally posted by NecroSocial Almost forgot to add: Bass players who think they're too good to play root notes. I mean geez not every bassline has to be a jazzplosive, funktastic oddessy.

 

If root notes were good enough for Lemmy and Dee Dee Ramone....

[ratthedd]

 

Originally posted by falconproject No hats on stage, unless your a C and W act. No shorts on stage ever. Keep your feet off the monitor. Please don't change your strings 5 minutes before the show. No sandals on stage. Leave your 100 watt whatever amp at home, or better yet sell it to some fool on ebay. Practice your ass off.

 

 

I understand most of those, but what's wrong with posing with your foot on the wedge? It's much more comfortable for me to play that way.

[slaws]

If floor monitors didn't exist Iron Maiden would have nowhere to put their feet. Same goes for Mark Tremonti (Creed, Alter Bridge)

[Never_Grew_Up]

But all the big name guys have riders in their contracts that PAY for any damage done by stepping/standing on a monitor & putting their foot through the grill. Not to mention the spares a big sound company carries so if 1 blows/dies they can whip out another during the break between songs. Most club gigging bands don't have either of these, much less an extra few hundred $$ to pay the sound guy for damages before then evening's over.

[ratthedd]

I own the damn wedges and I'll stick my tiny Dutch feet on them if I want...

 

 

:D

[Never_Grew_Up]

Exactly! They're yours. Stand on 'em, piss on 'em, soak 'em in gas & light 'em on fire, and fix/live with whatever damage you do. But If I was opening for your band, & treated your monitors like that, you'd expect to be paid for the damage. That's where the breakdown often occurs.

 

On a similiar note I used to play w/a lead singer who CONSTANTLY put his foot on the base of the mic stand and then leaned all over the place, stripping out the threads on the cast bases. (It's a wierd size thread, too. I haven't found a machine shop yet that can re-cut them.) After bitching at him over & over that he was tearing up my stands, I quit bringing extras. Instead I brought a map showing where the nearest music stores & Radio Shacks were so he could go buy his own & tear them up.

[MDLMUSIC]

The thing that drives me crazy is harmonica or sax players who play lead lines continuously through the whole song, interfering with or even covering up the vocals or guitar leads. Just shut up and wait yer turn already!

[wheresgrant3]

Singers who use sheet music stands ... period!!! There are a million places to stick lyric reminders,,, on a speaker, a floor monitor... your bass player's back... do not dork up the stage by singing rock covers as you are staring at a sheet music stand to the right of you. Lame.

[ATOMICDOG1]

Originally posted by jahozer drummers who "solo" in between songs. Especially at practice. Or drummers who bang the drums when your head is next to them wrapping up cables or whatever.

 

As a soundman, this is one of my greatest pet peeves. It just has to be on purpose. they see that my head is right down there, but they can't resist hitting that crash thats 4 inches away from my ear.

[ATOMICDOG1]

Originally posted by ratthedd I understand most of those, but what's wrong with posing with your foot on the wedge? It's much more comfortable for me to play that way.

 

I provide sound for a lot of different bands, I have more money invested in my monitor gear than most bands do if you include ALL of their gear. How do you think the band members would feel if I went around and put my foot through the grills on all of their amps?

 

Putting your feet on the monitors can cause a lot of damage. Even if there's a metal grill on the monitor, the metal gets dented in, sometimes its bad enough that the metal is right against the speaker making it impossible for the cone to move. When this happens, one of two things happen, either the voice coil heats up to the point that the speaker is ruined, or the felt in the speaker cone gives way and the speaker is ruined. It can cost a couple hundred dollars to recone a speaker. Plus all the dents and wear from asshats who put their feet on my monitors makes my monitors look bad so that when those same asshats come back again, they take a look at my poor abused stage monitors and say "damn, those are some {censored}ty looking monitors".

 

And don't even get me started on the musicians who think that the horn on a stage monitor makes a good place to tape their setlist or to put their drink and then bitch because :the monitor isn't cutting through the stage noise"

[ATOMICDOG1]

 

Originally posted by Never_Grew_Up Exactly! They're yours. Stand on 'em, piss on 'em, soak 'em in gas & light 'em on fire, and fix/live with whatever damage you do. But If I was opening for your band, & treated your monitors like that, you'd expect to be paid for the damage. That's where the breakdown often occurs. On a similiar note I used to play w/a lead singer who CONSTANTLY put his foot on the base of the mic stand and then leaned all over the place, stripping out the threads on the cast bases. (It's a wierd size thread, too. I haven't found a machine shop yet that can re-cut them.) After bitching at him over & over that he was tearing up my stands, I quit bringing extras. Instead I brought a map showing where the nearest music stores & Radio Shacks were so he could go buy his own & tear them up.

 

 

Yep, I toured with a singer like that for a while, I wouldn't let him use my stands after a while, which turned out to be a good thing... he was too cheap to go buy his own and he couldn't use mine, so he had to go without, it kept him from hiding behind his mic stand in one place all night and made him a much better front man.

[Never_Grew_Up]

Saw Greenday last night at Philips arena (Atlanta, GA) Killer show! They had 2 floor monitors per player, shaped like the attachment below. The big flat part on top was FOR THEM TO STAND ON! Bill Joe especially jumped up & down on them all night. But that's what they were built for. Seems like it'd be pretty easy to build a plywood box that a particular floor monitor would fit into. Hmmm...

[JLo]

Originally posted by Never_Grew_Up Saw Greenday last night at Philips arena (Atlanta, GA) Killer show! They had 2 floor monitors per player, shaped like the attachment below. The big flat part on top was FOR THEM TO STAND ON! Bill Joe especially jumped up & down on them all night. But that's what they were built for. Seems like it'd be pretty easy to build a plywood box that a particular floor monitor would fit into. Hmmm...

 

I remember seeing Filter on MTV's house of style once and they had the wedges underneath metal grates on the underside of the stage. The singer could have stood directly on top of the wedge if he wanted to really neat, as this was before IEM's became as common as they are now. Didn't Ozzy do this once too?

 

 

 

Oh and on topic - I hate bass players that think that playing the whole notes or half noteson 1 and 3 is playing bass... Give me a freakin' bass line, or something more interesting at least (yes this descibes my current bass player, who really doesn't play too much more than quarter notes, despite the fact that there is plenty of back beat and groove to the tune

[jason]

 

Originally posted by ratthedd Drummers who don't know the beat to the song they're supposed to be playing the intro to and make it up as they go along.

 

 

I'm dealing w/a drummer like this right now (yesterday actually, & monday probably).

 

Nice guy & all, but I told him he should practice even if he doesn't like to practice, 'cause it really pays off.

 

Which brings me to my humble contribution:

 

Drummers that believe a great drummer is one that constantly bashes the {censored} out of every song, & who's technique is so innefficient that they are tired after 2 or 3 songs.

 

Guitarists that think a great guitarist is one that plays a zillion notes per second,every one of them meaningless, & have never heard of something called "phrasing".

[Outkaster]

Originally posted by wheresgrant3 Singers who use sheet music stands ... period!!! There are a million places to stick lyric reminders,,, on a speaker, a floor monitor... your bass player's back... do not dork up the stage by singing rock covers as you are staring at a sheet music stand to the right of you. Lame.

 

Yeah that should mean automatic outs for them. People should be fired for that. This is not grammer school band performance.

[theflyingeyebal]

Drummers that overplay. If the song calls for an easy beat: play it. Skip all the snare accents, unnecessary kick drum action, random crashes, and play the damned beat.

 

Bassists who think they are playing a guitar with 4 strings. It has more in common with the drums than the guitar. The bass should go with the kick drum for the most part. Why does nobody realize that?

 

Why is it so hard for people to get this?

[Cassius]

Originally posted by theflyingeyebal Drummers that overplay. If the song calls for an easy beat: play it. Skip all the snare accents, unnecessary kick drum action, random crashes, and play the damned beat. Bassists who think they are playing a guitar with 4 strings. It has more in common with the drums than the guitar. The bass should go with the kick drum for the most part. Why does nobody realize that? Why is it so hard for people to get this?

 

At first i just roughly played the root notes to the rhythm of the song Once the drummer mentioned the kick drum thing everything made sense... But thats what you get when you ask a guitarist to fill in on bass!

 

There should really be a piece of paper that comes with each bass guitar with this mantra on it. Most likely one that needs signed before you get the bass home with you.

[flatbedder]

This has been a very good thread on what not to do. When I finally get the opportunity to jam or join up in a band it will be nice to know what everybody's peeves are.